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NWA and DELTA
- Thread starter HAL Pilot
- Start date
..... And no meal service, no baggage check, no interline ticketing, no international treaties to adhere to ($$$), no retirement obligations to pay for (except for upper management, of courseMefesto said:
) , limited health/dental care, blah, blah, blah ..... on and on .... ad infinitum.By the way ... Jet Blue lost $$$ last quarter. Making money is always easy in the early years when you have no overhead and don't pay your people sh!t.
I love it. Reality is approaching ... as it always does. :icon_rast
NavyLonghorn
Registered User
Do the Pilots and Flight Attendents have any communication on all this, I know they are seperate unions obviously, but, are they working togeather atall?
NavyVance said:
Three words: yes and no.
NWA Pilot's Stike ballot results:
Over 90 % of the NWA pilot group voted (4,413 votes were cast out of an eligible 4,851 active pilots)
NWA pilots voted to authorize their union -- ALPA -- Air Line Pilots' Association -- to call for a removal of service by a 92.83 % margin.
note: for what it's worth ... I have never seen numbers this high relating to a vote to approve a potential strike in any airline in my experience. The NWA pilot group appears united.
Some things are more important than money. There is a point in time, in all things, when you just have to take out your sword --- draw a line in the dirt --- and say: "NO MORE".
I think the NWA pilot group just did that ....
NavyLonghorn
Registered User
Hrm. Youd think my father, a bus captin for NWA, woulda mentioned all this at some point...
NavyVance said:
Maybe he's leading a double life --- maybe he's really a Delta Captain. And you are adopted ....
NavyLonghorn
Registered User
Delta.. why might land on your street.
Delta.. your kids will love our rubber slides.
Delta.. smoking.. non smoking.. and burned beyond recognition.
Delta.. if the engines are too loud.. we turn em off.
Delta.. your kids will love our rubber slides.
Delta.. smoking.. non smoking.. and burned beyond recognition.
Delta.. if the engines are too loud.. we turn em off.
NavyLonghorn
Registered User
Their isnt an O-3 in the training command that isnt chomping at the bit to get an airline job. Since most of them get hired on by SouthWest if anywhere, I cant believe less pay would be a deterent.
It seems like all a strike is gonna do, is get a bunch of jobs to the huge pool of unemployed pilots, and utterly destroy ALPA's influance.
I clearly have no real clue here.. just seems like things arent the same as they used to be.. and labor doesnt have the leverage it used to have.
It seems like all a strike is gonna do, is get a bunch of jobs to the huge pool of unemployed pilots, and utterly destroy ALPA's influance.
I clearly have no real clue here.. just seems like things arent the same as they used to be.. and labor doesnt have the leverage it used to have.
Not sure what you mean by "detriment" ... explain.NavyVance said:
"There isn' an O-3 in the training command that isnt chomping at the bit to get an airline job... "???
What a surprise. The More Things Change ... the More They Stay the Same ...
NavyLonghorn
Registered User
I ment "Deterrent," sorry. As in im sure plenty of people would love to take the jobs ALPA guys are striking over, for a considerable paycut.
O.K. ... gotcha' now --- my problem ... or if you prefer --- OURS.NavyVance said:
I misread and you misspelled. What is going WRONG in the world !!! Let me put it this way. I am putting in my paperwork to retire early. Why??? Because under the new "agreement" I will work for what I made 15 years ago, i.e., 40% less pay and fly 10% more hours. That's a net 50% pay cut.
That's dragging my ass across the Pacific 1/2 or more of every month for what I was making as a F/O. Living out of a suitcase 1/2 of EVERY month for what I was making as a F/O. Even the Navy does better than that ....
It's not worth it. When you get to be my age ... you will understand.
NavyLonghorn
Registered User
I understand. I hear the same stuff outa my dad, but, I think hell prolly keep taking what he can get. Hes only 50 though, a young buck by your standards I'm sure ;p.
My friends dad is a 777 captain for delta, he has become quite apathetic because he feels that he is underappreciated and overmanaged. He didn't even care to fill out the strike ballot, he let his daughter do it. It is kind of sad, I always wanted to be a Delta pilot when I was growing up!
Unions Carrying More Influence In US Bankruptcy Cases
[FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif]Friday April 7, 3:24 PM EDT[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif]ATLANTA (AP)--Bankrupt companies hold a big stick in how their reorganization turns out. They can cancel contracts, eliminate stock options and wipe away debt. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif]
But increasingly, labor unions, especially in recent airline bankruptcies, are trying to show they have muscle, too. Their weapon: strike, or at least make management think you will.
From the airline to the auto industry, unions are attempting to protect their pay and their pensions. But some legal experts caution that unions can do as much harm to themselves as their companies by taking a stand in bankruptcy. And some question whether the threat of a walkout really does carry much weight.
The union activities come at a time when employees feel they're under more pressure than ever to match their peers in the money they make, the hours they work and the benefits they receive. And in this fight, not all unions are created equal, with some enjoying more success in labor disputes than others because of their role in their company.
"While unions might not have much in the way of power in a Chapter 11 case, they have a unique kind of influence," said David Dykhouse, a New York bankruptcy attorney. "They might not get their way, but they've been sort of taken into account and things end up not being the way they would have been had the union not had this role."
It's yet to be determined whether the pilots union at Delta Air Lines Inc. (DAL), the nation's No. 3 carrier, will have much power or influence to decide its fate in the company's bankruptcy case.
The union voted on Tuesday to authorize a strike at the Atlanta-based company, and it says it will walk out if Delta is successful in persuading an arbitration panel to void its contract with its 5,930 pilots so the airline can impose up to $325 million in long-term pay and benefit cuts. But the company so far isn't flinching, even with some customers turning to other carriers, and with time running out for the two sides to reach a deal on their own.
Northwest Airlines Corp. (NWACQ) already had its bankruptcy court showdown with pilots who threatened to walk off the job if the airline was allowed to throw out their contract. Pilots held rallies and staged informational pickets at airports while negotiations hurtled past a court-imposed deadline. In the end, the pilots' representatives kept a proposed Northwest subsidiary limited to jets with 76 seats - a smaller plane than Eagan, Minn.-based Northwest had wanted, and one that would force it to use more pilots. Even then, it's not clear whether the deal will succeed. Pilots have not approved it yet.
Northwest baggage handlers haven't fared as well. They rejected the airline's proposed settlement and authorized a strike, in hopes that the airline would offer them a better deal. It hasn't. Instead, Northwest will ask a bankruptcy judge to let it throw out the baggage handler's union contract at a hearing beginning May 15.
For all the tough talk, some legal experts say unions can be hampered in their efforts when others in their industry are agreeing to similarly deep pay cuts.
"Their enemy is not the debtor or the bankruptcy court, but the scourge of deflation," said bankruptcy attorney William Rochelle, referring to reduced wage scales at peer companies. "I think the unions can hold their own when they're going one-on-one against management, but when they are also in a deflationary environment, they're outnumbered."
Airlines provide a unique situation for pilots unions in trying to exert power in labor disputes, however. Unlike other industries, it's difficult to near impossible for an airline whose pilots go on strike to come up with replacements in enough time to keep the company afloat. Delta has said a pilot strike would put it out of business.
"Airlines are a very special case, particularly when it comes to pilots," said David Treitel, chief executive of aviation consulting firm SH&E in New York.
He said pilots are highly skilled individuals who have licensing requirements that are not typical of unions in general.
"Finding alternatives, if you will, is not a practical thing," Treitel said. " It can't be done. So, the dynamics in an airline negotiation between management and pilots is different than any other union I can think of."
Dow Jones Newswires 04-07-06 1524ET Copyright (c) 2006 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.[/FONT]