And how is this any different from if they were straight and raped a female sailor? What does their sexuality have to do with it?
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Obama and Gays In the Military
- Thread starter usmarinemike
- Start date
And how is this any different from if they were straight and raped a female sailor? What does their sexuality have to do with it?
Hollywood showers must be popular with them then.
thull
Well-Known Member
it all seems to be working well with the don't ask don't tell policy...what the hells wrong with just keeping it to yourself and if you wanna be open and flamboyant and make moves on your dam bunkmate, prepare for a mega beat down? the unspoken rules will always remain whatever higher up decides to say or sign
Interesting. Ultimately this a cultural issue (and I don't mean the military, I mean our country) which can be distilled to how we view sex and gender on the whole.
DADT is about what the cultural mode of the country can handle right now. It's not a right and wrong issue, so much as one of normalcy (a certain amount of which you have to have to function in organizations like the military). "The gays" are, to an extent, acknowledged and accepted in our culture, but not completely, so we have this kind of wierd thing going as to how they are incorporated on the national level.
If you grew up shitting in stalls next to girls, you probably wouldn't have as much of a problem rooming with the Brown Bay Packers on the boat.
co-ed showers do seem to be inevitable...
Meh. Gays are gonna be in the military regardless of what the policy is, imo. As long as they're not creepy / abusive I don't really care.
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
This is the crux of the matter. It's not a moral issues. It's one of logistics. How many of you have seen berthing disparities before, especially aboard ships? One group (typically female, but it doesn't matter) have 1 to a room while the other group has 4 (4 man rooms). One group has a shower trailer right next to their can, and one group has to walk a half a mile to theirs.
Actually, it would be 4 sets of facilities. Straight men, straight women, gay men, and gay women. Or we could all pile into one.
I don't think that any rational person could believe that the "one facility" concept wouldn't corrupt good order and discipline in this current environment and set of cultural norms. It's just not acceptable to do these things in "mixed company", however you define it.
Whenever I have this argument with a "pro-gays-in-the-military" person, it's almost always a woman. I'll always ask her if she would mind taking a shower with me. The answer (somewhat sadly) is invariably an emphatic NO. I'll then ask her why, and she'll tell me that she doesn't want me to check her out (which I would....can't help it). When I ask her why I should be asked to do the same thing with a gay man, she will generally shut up.
That lasts about 30 seconds until she goes to the tried and true emotional response of "But it's different for guys".
My point exactly.
We need to cull out the moral hysteria and stick to the facts. It's a logistical issue, and solving it (which could be done) is not worth the effort. It would not greatly add the numbers of troops (and possibly reduce it)and it would not add efficiency to our processes.
People need to realize that serving in the military is not a right.
So you justify excluding gays from service for want of a head.
You could make that argument for females as well, why double the number of berthing and head facilities required? And that probably justifies keeping females out of submarines. But we've managed to find room for them pretty much elsewhere, so why not gays as well?
Maybe we just have to grow up. Do gays have to use private heads so they don't check each other out?
skidz
adrenaline junky
You can only become so tolerant before you throw efficiency out the window.
As for the gays, as long as they keep it to themselves and don't act on it while in service, or at least in uniform, fine.
An old Navy guy once told me about silent overboards when one became too open about their position on this. Doubt it's completely false, although extremely rare.
Playing devil's advocate, roughly half the manpower in America is female.
Gays are, being very very generous here, maybe 15% of the male population?
We can't accomodate every "special" group out there if they won't contribute enough bodies to the effort.
And berthing/crew living space on surface ships is cramped enough already.
That's exactly what I have said and why it would be a double standard. Why do we separates male and females in the first place when it comes to bathrooms and berthing? Surely, we are all mature adults who can control ourselves and our sexual urges while sharing facilities. Right? Well the military, and most of society, actually, says NO, hence separate facilities. So now I have to share the head with another male who is openly and unabashedly attracted to my kind. Seems like a double standard.
Of course, I'm sure I've shared plenty of facilities with gays before without knowing it. I really don't care - but the systemic double standard inherent in government civilian officials dictating to the military really bugs me. Don't even get me started on the removal of porn from exchanges.
OfficerorBust
New Member
Huggy Bear you are 100% on the mark. I couldn't have said it better my self. But now every liberal out there that reads it will scribble "Huggy Bear" in their little bigot tracker notebook(because your name isn't Rev. Wright) and persecute you forever. All this with out realizing the point you are making.
Oh....and it does suck they have taken porn out of the exchanges. God forbid you get caught with some italian or spanish porn mag in your rack during a health and comfort:icon_rage. What ever happens to them once get confiscated......................
Who am I kidding, we already know the answr to that.
Oh....and it does suck they have taken porn out of the exchanges. God forbid you get caught with some italian or spanish porn mag in your rack during a health and comfort:icon_rage. What ever happens to them once get confiscated......................
Who am I kidding, we already know the answr to that.
I'm pretty sure we all have...maybe even on the boat!
Most other NATO countries and Australia allow gays to serve openly, and many of them are not slackers when it comes to fighting.
