Now I know why the F/H guys always said the B guys were gay
......the company you keep.
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Obama and Gays In the Military
- Thread starter usmarinemike
- Start date
......the company you keep.
We're approaching the edge of propriety here; whatever happened happened and MB was disgusted. Big picture is fine but we don't need the details of whatever man-on-man action may have occurred in some foreign port. This thread goes downhill and it's done. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
My 2 cents:
If you are going to allow homosexuals to openly serve, you need to treat it as a mixed gender situation. If a homo man can be in male berthing, then a hetero man can be in female berthing. We know that is not going to happen, so there will have to be either four types of berthing - hetero male, hetero female, homo male and homo female. You might be able to reduce it to three combining the homo male and homo female but I doubt it.
I am also with MB on this - if I was still active and I was assigned a stateroom with a homosexual, I would insist on a room / roommate change. If it was denied, I would take it through every legal channel available. The waves I would make would swamp an aircraft carrier. Not because I am scared of being butt raped, but just as a female would be uncomfortable living with a man, I would be uncomfortable living with a homosexual. Whether it is overt or not, there is always a sexual tension in any mixed gender berthing / sleeping / living situation. It is an unacceptable situation.
This is basically why they do not allow women on submarine crews, lack of facilities to accommodate mixed gender berthing. Same principle, same outcome.
If you are going to allow homosexuals to openly serve, you need to treat it as a mixed gender situation. If a homo man can be in male berthing, then a hetero man can be in female berthing. We know that is not going to happen, so there will have to be either four types of berthing - hetero male, hetero female, homo male and homo female. You might be able to reduce it to three combining the homo male and homo female but I doubt it.
I am also with MB on this - if I was still active and I was assigned a stateroom with a homosexual, I would insist on a room / roommate change. If it was denied, I would take it through every legal channel available. The waves I would make would swamp an aircraft carrier. Not because I am scared of being butt raped, but just as a female would be uncomfortable living with a man, I would be uncomfortable living with a homosexual. Whether it is overt or not, there is always a sexual tension in any mixed gender berthing / sleeping / living situation. It is an unacceptable situation.
This is basically why they do not allow women on submarine crews, lack of facilities to accommodate mixed gender berthing. Same principle, same outcome.
If you have to separate straight men from gay men, wouldn't you also have to separate gay men from each other?
Yup, one more potential problem. I'm glad you understand why it's just not easy or feasible.
Wise words, Pilot. A que ... ops ... homosexual only berthing area boggels the mind.
Nor would I tolerate living with an openly que... dang, there I go again, homosexual. I simply would not tolerate it. "Their" retort of course would be ""we" will make you tolerate it". Which brings me to our prison system experience, a peek into the future of what is to come.
That said, I think it a bad rap to tie this to Obama. His reply seemd to suggest he truely understood the issues, just my belief.
Why does it have to be treated as such? No other country that allows gays to serve openly, such as the UK, Australia and Israel, have such seperate facilities. It appears to me that they have not lost any of their combat effectiveness or have serious personnel problems resulting from it. The seperate berthing would not be done if gays were to serve openly, the military will be told to shut up and color like they were when blacks were integrated and women were allowed in some combat conditions.
I wish the best of luck with anyone who tries to fight it that hard. If it is a lawful order, then you don't have much of a choice. I would think that some commands might be accomodating but it would likely be the end of one's career if they chose to fight it. I would assume our civlian leadership that institutes such a change would not be very tolerant of such open protest. The very small price we pay for living in a democracy sometimes.
Not quite the same, even Britain thinks so. As the only other country that operates their submarines the same way we do, for very long periods underway/underwater regularly, they still do not allow mixed crews.....male and female that is. But they do let gays serve.......
Like I said before, I think this is inevitable. Whether we like it not, we will have this policy instituted, we will have to salute smartly and follow along or get out of the way. For me, this would be a minor issue/sacrifice that I would have to deal with when compared to the honor and privilege of serving my country.
utak
Registered User
One day in the near future, Supply is going to start issuing assless chaps (but Navy colors and flame retardant!).
How? You could no longer scream gay and get a discharge...
I will be a conscientious objector to living with homo and transsexuals...
There are numerous factors involved in this situation, but the most important one to me is the military bearing factor. Other countries are simply different in how they value their society's principles vice the need for military disciplines and this is exemplified by the presense of alcohol underway on almost any other navy's ships. The same could be said for the openly gay issue as well.
Being gay is, from a very simple perspective, an issue about sex. What makes a man or woman gay? It's who they bump uglies with. Religion and politics are frowned-upon discussion topics in the military, and sex is a matter of privacy or a matter for machismo chest-thumping among close friends, so it should not be an omnipresent factor in the military.
What would you rate the military bearing of an individual who consistantly referenced political topics, such as abortion or immigration, to seemingly unrelated topics? What would you rate the military bearing of an individual who constantly mentioned God? What about Allah?
My understanding of DADT is that it applies only to the military, and the military is far from the only way to serve one's country with distinction. If someone cannot handle the military's need for (really really) basic discipline and bearing, then they perhaps should seek alternative options to serve if that is what they truly desire.
Now don't get me started on how untrue everything I said was with regards to the frathouse that is every integrated ship in the fleet. I'm just sayin', ya know?
Being gay is, from a very simple perspective, an issue about sex. What makes a man or woman gay? It's who they bump uglies with. Religion and politics are frowned-upon discussion topics in the military, and sex is a matter of privacy or a matter for machismo chest-thumping among close friends, so it should not be an omnipresent factor in the military.
What would you rate the military bearing of an individual who consistantly referenced political topics, such as abortion or immigration, to seemingly unrelated topics? What would you rate the military bearing of an individual who constantly mentioned God? What about Allah?
My understanding of DADT is that it applies only to the military, and the military is far from the only way to serve one's country with distinction. If someone cannot handle the military's need for (really really) basic discipline and bearing, then they perhaps should seek alternative options to serve if that is what they truly desire.
Now don't get me started on how untrue everything I said was with regards to the frathouse that is every integrated ship in the fleet. I'm just sayin', ya know?