Obama and Gays In the Military

[HercDriver]

I wonder how the armed forces of other countries handled this without their brains exploding and everyone leaving the service en masse? How did the inferior Royal Navy solve this logistical nightmare, when we are apoplectic about it?

Gays already serve, and plenty have served with distinction. With a change you would probably know who was gay (except for those who would still keep it to themselves). As for someone being militant, what better place than the military. Seriously, I have no desire for a straight guy to tell me about how he scored with some chick...it would the same for some gay guy as well (please, no comments on whether you would want a lesbian to tell you her lesbian stories).

 

[MasterBates]

Good Herc, you can room with a butt-pirate.

Been there, done that. Will resign my commission before I do it again.

Having to guard your butthole for 6 months gets old.

May not be PC, but its the reality.

 

[Brett327]

Good Herc, you can room with a butt-pirate.

Been there, done that. Will resign my commission before I do it again.

Having to guard your butthole for 6 months gets old.

May not be PC, but its the reality.

Ridiculous. Your precious cornhole would be in no more danger than the nearest vagina while underway. There may be valid arguments for maintaining DADT, but this certainly isn't one of them.

Brett

 

[MasterBates]

Brett,

Have you had to cruise with a "bunkmate" who would make Freddy Mercury look straight?

Until you cruise with a person who is pushing the yellow-red line for 6 months, who you have SEEN having relations with men in the admin, give me a break.

There are other reasons I don't like ass-pirates, as I am leaving it at that.

 

[Brett327]

Brett,

Have you had to cruise with a "bunkmate" who would make Freddy Mercury look straight?

Until you cruise with a person who is pushing the yellow-red line for 6 months, who you have SEEN having relations with men in the admin, give me a break.

There are other reasons I don't like ass-pirates, as I am leaving it at that.

Even though your story sounds a bit far fetched, you would have been within your rights to report him. I would suggest that under the current policy, you were derelict in your duties as an officer in not doing so. At any rate, the possibility that inappropriate behavior will be engaged in by either sex is not a sufficient reason to exclude any group. It's not viewed that way with male-female interaction in the service, and it's hardly the norm, so why would it be any different for gays?

Brett

 

[HercDriver]

There are other reasons I don't like ass-pirates, as I am leaving it at that.

Their deep, abiding love for Celine Dion?

 

[PropStop]

There are other reasons I don't like ass-pirates, as I am leaving it at that.

Does it have anything to do with clowns?

 

[MasterBates]

I asked about his "behavior"..

I was told it fell under "don't ask, don't tell" as nobody saw thing going in exits, therefore not "bona fide gay behavior". Even though everything just short of that was seen.

Don't care to deal with it again. Was told to "deal with it" when I asked discreetly to be moved to a different stateroom.

He 'came out' about 7 months later and is not in the Navy anymore.

 

[SDNalgene]

So you justify...gay...service for want of...head.

Sorry, that's all I got out of the post the first time I read it.

On a serious note, I am not going to get out of the military if gays are openly allowed to serve. I am honest enough with myself to know that I am not the irresistable piece of man candy that MasterBates seems to think he is. In fact, I think I am going to claim that my beer gut and flabby ass are intended to counter any new threats posed to me by allowing gays to serve openly.

I do, however, dislike it when military policies are forced to change by politicians who wish to use the military as a vehicle for societal change. Seperate fitness standards for men and women come to mind. There is nothing more retarded than using the military to "prove" the equality of the sexes, despite having to use unequal standards to do so. I don't have a problem serving with women, but the politics of it annoys me. Likewise, I don't have a problem with homosexuals being able to serve without having to hide it, but if it turns into a "we need to have x number of homosexuals CO's, flags, etc." then I will find that naseauting. The military's purpose is to kill people and break things, not to make work for people or to make people get a warm and fuzzy over how PC their military is.

 

[Flash]

Been there, done that. Will resign my commission before I do it again.

Having to guard your butthole for 6 months gets old.

May not be PC, but its the reality.

Brett,

Have you had to cruise with a "bunkmate" who would make Freddy Mercury look straight?

Until you cruise with a person who is pushing the yellow-red line for 6 months, who you have SEEN having relations with men in the admin, give me a break.

Don't care to deal with it again. Was told to "deal with it" when I asked discreetly to be moved to a different stateroom.

He 'came out' about 7 months later and is not in the Navy anymore.

Okay, so you had a flamer for a roomie and didn't like it. You are really going to resign from the Navy just so you don't room with a gay/homosexual guy? That's like saying I will resign from the Navy because I don't want to room with an asshole, or a moron. I don't like either of those and yet I still have to deal with them.

Or do you still have the fear that one of these guys is going to bend you over and make you his b!tch? I am sorry, but that is bordering on irrational and paranoid.

 

[Flash]

I did, based on the assumption that it would be necessary under current social norms. Maybe "they" will just force us to deal with it. If so, stand by for an avalanche of sexual harassment complaints, baseless as they may be.

Current social norms require separate facilities for men and women, nothing seperate for gays/homosexuals. I am sure someone could come up with an extreme example but tht is not the case where I work, or anywhere else that I am aware of that has gays/homosexuals working there.

Perhaps. I'll bet that it will hurt retention and will not bolster recruiting enough to make up for the delta.

I honestly dont' know, I think we can't do anything but speculate.

The whole "protecting your cornhole" scenario is perposterous. Rapes are exceedingly rare, though not rare enough. Even under the most optimistic estimations, homosexuals would still be a very small minority group in the armed forces, and it would be an extremely stupid thing to do to rape a straight man while being so surrounded by more of them. It just isn't a credible threat.

That, I'll agree with you on.

We can vote.

Aside from that, you're right. We'll deal with it no matter what happens.

The bottom line here is that if you think that people won't fight this, legally or illegally, right or wrong, and fair or unfair from within (EAS, desertions, fights, harassment, etc), then I think that you're underestimating the situation. If you think that a horde of homosexulas will be rushing to join up and replace those we lost, then even more so.

Readiness will suffer. Will it recover in time as we are reprogrammed to accept this situation? Maybe. Is it worth the risk, time of war or not? No.

While there might be some harrassment of some of the newly 'out', overall I would think it would have a relatively small impact. If some deserts, gets in a fight, etc, I think that they got bigger problems than gays in the military.

And I am not certain readiness would suffer. How would it? Just like you said there would not be a flood of gays joining the military, I don't think many will 'come out' of the closet in the military to start with. Any buffoonery that would result would most likely be swiftly and harshly dealt with, especially due to the microscope that the military would be under in the aftermath of such a decision.

 

[Harrier Dude]

Current social norms require separate facilities for men and women, nothing seperate for gays/homosexuals. I am sure someone could come up with an extreme example but tht is not the case where I work, or anywhere else that I am aware of that has gays/homosexuals working there.

That's a good point. I came at that analogy from a different angle.....namely berthing, which led to showers and heads. It's hard to compare the two scenarios because in civilian life people aren't normally forced to live in close quarters with strangers for extended periods.

I honestly dont' know, I think we can't do anything but speculate.

I think that a little educated speculation is a good idea before making such a controversial decision. After all, readiness is largely a numbers issue.

While there might be some harrassment of some of the newly 'out', overall I would think it would have a relatively small impact. If some deserts, gets in a fight, etc, I think that they got bigger problems than gays in the military.

I think that initally it will be bad in terms or harassment, desertions, and beatings. That will slow down after awhile, but it will be a big distraction for commands. Like it or not, the large percentage of our services doesn't have such a accepting attitude as some members of this site. A whole lot of them will agree with MB.

And I am not certain readiness would suffer. How would it? Just like you said there would not be a flood of gays joining the military, I don't think many will 'come out' of the closet in the military to start with. Any buffoonery that would result would most likely be swiftly and harshly dealt with, especially due to the microscope that the military would be under in the aftermath of such a decision.

Simple. I believe that more people would leave than join as a result of this change. A negative delta in personnel results. Commands are forced to deal with yet another set of legal/personnel/political concerns, which will only serve as a distraction. Readiness will suffer as a result.

As to Scoob and his rejection of my logistics argument and thinly veiled accusations of homophobia.......

That's an old drill. Dismantle my ideas if you can from a logical perspective. Emotional attacks and acusations won't get anywhere.

 

[MasterBates]

kay, so you had a flamer for a roomie and didn't like it. You are really going to resign from the Navy just so you don't room with a gay/homosexual guy? That's like saying I will resign from the Navy because I don't want to room with an asshole, or a moron. I don't like either of those and yet I still have to deal with them.

I view this as being forced to room with a person of the opposite sex. I personally am torn on the gays in the service thing. If they keep it to themselves, no problem. The moment they make a pass/attempt, or "come out" they are gone. If we are going to have open gays in the military, they need separate berthing. That is my opinion.

I have no problems living with assholes. I am one. Just stay out of mine.

Would you like your wife having to live in a stateroom on a smallboy with a guy? Probably not, but you are the progressive-liberal Canadian loving guy, so that might be OK with you

If I was married, that would NOT be OK with me. And I view living with open gays as "mixed gender berthing". I would not want my mom/sister to have to do it, and I did not like having to do it. Nor would I force them to live with open lesbians. Especially the butch kind that seem to like it here.

Or do you still have the fear that one of these guys is going to bend you over and make you his b!tch? I am sorry, but that is bordering on irrational and paranoid.

I was not, due to my size. However, my other roommate was honestly scared that one day the flamer would come back from liberty drunk and try something. He was 135 soaking wet. "Freddie Mercury" was 200ish. At the time, I was 260.

Less of a fear for my cornhole, than just a desire to not have to deal with the BS. If I was smaller, or is prison, where I would be smaller, I WOULD fear for my cornhole.

The gays I knew from college and the ex's friends were about 70/30 on the laid back / militant gay split. The laid back ones I can deal with. The militant ones looking to "convert" I wanted to knock them the funk out the first time they so much as put a hand on my ass, but in the current "victim culture" that would be a hate crime.

 

[FLYTPAY]

Until you cruise with a person who is pushing the yellow-red line for 6 months, who you have SEEN having relations with men in the admin, give me a break.

That is flat out disturbing.

 

[MasterBates]

Tell me about it. Was glad to get the hell off that boat. Pilots started getting their own admin after that port.