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Peoples' Pedophile Party

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
AllAmerican75 said:
Many pedophiles don't choose to be attracted to kids(and they don't see it as wrong), they are just hardwired that way, much like homosexuals are wired to like the same sex. They can't help it....
I've heard and read this stuff before. I don't believe it. For every "study" supporting this theory there is at least one rejecting it. As far as I'm concerned, it's a choice they make. And if they choose this path, they deserve to suffer the consequences.

AllAmerican75 said:
Child molesters and rapists are a bit different. Molesters were usually molested themselves, and while they say what they do as wrong, their minds are so f***ed up that they are compelled to do it...
Again, they are responsible for their own actions. For ever child molester or rapist with a "bad" childhood, there are thousands (if not millions) who had equally bad or worst things happen to them that don't molest or rape.

AllAmerican75 said:
The f***ers don't deserve a damn thing except a ride on Ol' Sparky. As far as I'm concerned, if you molest kids, rape women, or are a pedophile, you life is forfeit.:icon_rage
We agree 100% on this point.
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
AllAmerican75 said:
Glad we can agree on something.

Simulated AW Smilies.
Your entitled to your opinion and it sounds like a well thought out one. I just disagree. But I really do appreciate the link to Family Watchdog.
 

Cate

Pretty much invincible
Being hardwired to feel certain ways/desire certain kinds of people and actually acting on those feelings/desires are two different things. I may desire to strangle my boss with a lamp cord, and I may even be biochemically predisposed to wanting to strangle her with a lamp cord, but I know that my desire to strangle her with a lamp cord is bad and wrong. Thus, she remains alive today to terrorize others.

Most pedophiles/child predators, even knowing that their desires are frequently based in biology, also know that their desires are wrong and that acting on their desires is absolutely wrong. I don't care what a guy is hardwired to want; his decision to act on that desire is a conscious choice to do wrong things, and those are punishable by law.
 

PropStop

Kool-Aid free since 2001.
pilot
Contributor
Cate said:
Most pedophiles/child predators, even knowing that their desires are frequently based in biology, also know that their desires are wrong and that acting on their desires is absolutely wrong. I don't care what a guy is hardwired to want; his decision to act on that desire is a conscious choice to do wrong things, and those are punishable by law.

hardwired people may be to do certain things, but we are not animals, we have higher cognitive abilities (even the dumb ones). When people act on pure animal chemistry and they hurt someone else, the only thing you can do is put them down like a rabid dog. It is funny when my dog goes to hump another dog, he doesn’t really understand what he’s doing (he’s been fixed for a LOOOONG time), but it just seems natural. I’d say he’s even pretty smart for a dog, but he’s still a dog! I’ll accept that kind of behavior from him (it’s funny as hell), but never from a human.
 

junfan26

Snake Griffin
I may come off now as a psycho, but why don't we have the death penalty for pedophiles? Why are these people alive? In war innocent civilians die as collateral damage (I'm not objecting to this, just making a point), but it's not acceptable to kill kid-touchers in the country? This makes no sense to me. We need to re-evaluate what earns a death sentence.

The "hardwired" argument is complete BS, invented for either economic (drug companies and mental illness) or ideologic (gay activists and the "born that way" approach) reasons - it is not scientifically sound 99% of the time. This probably seems obvious, but finding a alteration in brain structure or chemistry does not mean one is "hardwired" a certain way, as it is equally likely and possibly for one's thoughts and actions to "rewire" the morphilogical/chemical composition of the brain. Carl Jung used to cure schizophrenics by TALKING to them, but 100 years later we have no idea what to do with the human psyche. The biological approach to psychology is a fabrication borne out of the biased minds of those with agendas. It is not science, and it is certainly not the best we can do.
 

AllAmerican75

FUBIJAR
None
Contributor
junfan26 said:
I may come off now as a psycho, but why don't we have the death penalty for pedophiles? Why are these people alive? In war innocent civilians die as collateral damage (I'm not objecting to this, just making a point), but it's not acceptable to kill kid-touchers in the country? This makes no sense to me. We need to re-evaluate what earns a death sentence.

I don't think you'll be labeled a psycho for something like a mandatory minimum sentence of death for pedophiles/rapists/murderers/child molesters. In fact HAL and I proposed and agreed upon something along those lines earlier.

Your point about the rewiring of brain chemistry makes a lot of sense. But I don't believe you can totally discount that there are some people out there who are hardwired to commit criminal acts such as murder or pedophilia. While I believe that there are some people who are wired that way from birth, there are also those who have had their brains re-wired by traumatic events. I think I might have made my point somewhat convoluted in my original post. No worries, it happens.

Simulated AW Smilies.
 

DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
junfan26 said:
I may come off now as a psycho, but why don't we have the death penalty for pedophiles? Why are these people alive? .


I think some states do... saw a thing on the news that South Carolina is introducing the newest legislation to do so for 2nd time offenders. I believe it said 8 other states already do, and I clearly remember Montana and I want to say West Virginia as being 2 of those 8.
 

FlyingBeagle

Registered User
pilot
junfan26 said:
I may come off now as a psycho, but why don't we have the death penalty for pedophiles? Why are these people alive?

Here's one reason: The point of the death penalty is to deter people from crime. An added benefit is that the state no longer has to provide for these people (although I've heard it argued that legal costs among other things actually make it more expensive to execute someone than imprison them for life). Surely death would deter some people.

However, there are those will do it anyways. If they know they face death solely from molesting kids, they really have no reason whatsoever to leave them alive (witnesses). Granted, some murder the child anyways, and some, despite their other crimes, will never be murderers. The death penalty may keep some children from being abused, but may also result in less coming home alive. All that would do is up the ante for both sides.

As bad as it is to molest a child, it isn't on the same level as murder; but when you assign the same penalty you essentially equate the two for the criminal. If I had a child I wouldn't want someone molesting my kid, but I wouldn't want him talking himself into a murder he hadn't initially planned.
 

junfan26

Snake Griffin
FlyingBeagle said:
Here's one reason: The point of the death penalty is to deter people from crime. An added benefit is that the state no longer has to provide for these people (although I've heard it argued that legal costs among other things actually make it more expensive to execute someone than imprison them for life). Surely death would deter some people.

Good point, but I don't think the sole use of the death penalty should be to deter criminals. The deterrence factor only works on the more sane criminals (which buttresses my idea of using the death penalty on drug dealers, bankers who launder drug money, the Ken Lays of the world...and France...), but the death penalty also gets rid of criminals, perverts and other moral "weak links" who could indeed be termed enemies of the state.

I don't favor the death penalty because it is a deterrent; I favor it because the world is a better place without these degenerates. This may sound insensitive and fascist, but it's the truth. The world is a better place without pedophiles, rapists, murderers. In the wild, predators pick off the sick and weak (and old and young) of a herd - the herd becomes stronger as a result. The same applies to a society's moral fabric. I think it is necessary to pick off the morally sick, weak and evil so that we do not become plagued with fear and cynicism (I could be way off about this, but it just makes sense to me, at least at the moment).

I also disagree that death is worse than being molested. The victims of sexual predators are permanently scarred, and many never regain a sense of dignity or self-respect. I personally know a number of victims of abuse who pray every day for death. For them, being alive is a nightmare.
 

junfan26

Snake Griffin
AllAmerican75 said:
I don't think you'll be labeled a psycho for something like a mandatory minimum sentence of death for pedophiles/rapists/murderers/child molesters. In fact HAL and I proposed and agreed upon something along those lines earlier.

Your point about the rewiring of brain chemistry makes a lot of sense. But I don't believe you can totally discount that there are some people out there who are hardwired to commit criminal acts such as murder or pedophilia. While I believe that there are some people who are wired that way from birth, there are also those who have had their brains re-wired by traumatic events. I think I might have made my point somewhat convoluted in my original post. No worries, it happens.

Simulated AW Smilies.

No, your message wasn't convoluted - theoretical psychodynamics was my area of study in both undergrad and grad school, so I go off on tangents a bit. My fault, not yours. I have a knee-jerk reaction to notions of hardwiring because it has poisoned the psychological community. You're absolutely right, some people are just born sick. Some are irrepairably twisted by traumatic events.

My objection is not to that, but to the liberties that some have taken regarding that phenomenon. It is estimated that over 25% of Americans will suffer from clinical depression at some point in their life. The biological model of psychology states that depression is due to an inherent chemical imbalance in the brain, most likely a deficiency of serotonin or a dysfunction in serotonin receptors. Were this true, then logic would follow that over a quarter of the country would have a brain disorder (albeit a vague one with apparently no effects on cognition or other brain functions) - an absurd percentage on par with the Black Plague. Obviously, this cannot be the case.

We have only a very elementary understanding of the interaction between brain chemistry and mental states, and this gray area has been manhandled by those with agendas. Do pedophiles have a chemical proclivity towards their sickness? To a limited degree, probably yes. Do they retain control over their impulses? Probably most of the time. We don't know yet the line of demarcation where one's emotional/chemical disposition overrides one's will. But for the legal (or any other) community to hijack the answer and a relieve a person of responsibility for their actions is clearly wrong.

Besides, even if pedophilia is indeed an intrinsic, inalterable mental disease which renders one unable to control their actions, what does that change? Should we deal with them any differently than if the crime were a conscious, willful decision? Either way, the trauma on the child is the same.

Sorry to be longwinded - Simulated AW smiles
 

AllAmerican75

FUBIJAR
None
Contributor
junfan26 said:
No, your message wasn't convoluted - theoretical psychodynamics was my area of study in both undergrad and grad school. . . .
Sorry to be longwinded - Simulated AW smiles

Don't worry about being longwinded, I find the innerworkings of the brain fascinating. Thanks for the lecture.

Simulated AW Smilies.
 

Birdman

Registered User
The death penalty is not a good detterent. A simple example of which is Texas. They kill more people then any other state, but the yearly execution numbers keep going up anyway.
 

Fly Navy

...Great Job!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Birdman1 said:
The death penalty is not a good detterent. A simple example of which is Texas. They kill more people then any other state, but the yearly execution numbers keep going up anyway.

Too much influx of people from across the border, they're just not familiar ;)
 
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