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Phrogs Phorever

Autorotate

FAC, former Phrog pilot
For the record, 3 MAW took over in January.

Col Angus:
I don't want to go into this again. I'm looking at three numbers: not interpretations thereof, not made up. They are:
1. Total number of AC
2. Mission capable aircraft
3. Sections tasked
Anything else is my opinion or personal observation. The end.
It makes you a bored Marine.
You are correct, sir!
If only he were a funny ninja, instead of a bitter ninja.
Yeah, I'm working on my material, but something is lost when relayed through my interpreter.
 

gotta_fly

Well-Known Member
pilot
BV-107II AKA Phrog Airlines

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I just watched 'Coogan's Bluff' on AMC (awesome Clint Eastwood classic) and in the end he departs aboard a Pan-Am phrog! I thought that seemed too awesome to be true so I looked it up, and sure enough there was a commerical variant called the BV-107 II. Only a handful were built for New York Airlways but the concept still seems cool. Anyone here ever seen or flown on one?

CBHelicopter2.jpg


2126776293_432a308df8.jpg
 

JIMC5499

ex-Mech
I think that those were supposed to be used for a helicopter shuttle from the roof of one of the World Trade Center buildings and JFK airport. For some reason it never panned out.
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
Another KV-107 undergoing a line maintenance/pre-flight at Columbia's facility.

No '46 I ever flew looked this clean - nice looking aircraft in every way.

Notice the rectangular windows, lack of APU (electric start T-58 engines).
 

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ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
Another note on Pags' photo find - the Chinook in the background is a Boeing 234 LR Commercial Chinook. Columbia, like the BV/KV-107's owns the type certificate. These were former British Airways and Helikopter Services machines operating in the North Sea servicing the giant oil platforms of the day. They could haul 50+ pax over 600 miles I believe in full IFR airline type operations. You'll notice Columbia has removed the large fuel sponsons to save weight. But in it's day this aircraft was the shizit of commercial helo operations. That all came to a screeching halt after a dramatic in flight breakup / mishap. But cool aircraft to be sure.
 

MarineT

New Member
No more CH-46 selects? Rumor or not?

So I have heard a rumor and oh how we all love rumors :tongue2_1, that you can no longer select the CH-46 after Advanced Helo's at South Field.

Any takers?

Edit* Sorry about the title. Missed the caps key on that H.
 

ArkhamAsylum

500+ Posts
pilot
Phrogs are expected to still be around by 2013. If you think that the most junior guy in the squadron will be a senior Capt four years out of flight school, you're wrong. There won't be anybody to route the schedule.
 

HueyCobra8151

Well-Known Member
pilot
For the people who do select CH-46s in the near future, what happens when they go away? Do you get to write your own ticket, head off to some other platforms RAG and start anew? Or do you become the redheaded stepchild of the aviation world and get stuck somewhere not so great?

Edit: Update to my METT-TC here, if you are, say a senior Captain in a phrog squadron, wouldn't you be stuck because if you went to a new platform you wouldn't have enough hours in your T/M/S A/C to be competitive with the guys who do, right?
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
The Marine Corps has enlisted do the vast majority of its UAV flying--there'll be no draft for that.

All the 46 pilots will transition to the V-22 if they stay around. There are a couple 53 and H-1 conversions around, but only a couple of each. The junior capts will be fine--actually it's a good deal for them to get to fly both. The senior capts will have a harder time--they have to earn back their quals, however they won't be affected for promotion, just in the air. The majors--well, most of them are kinda fooked.
 

ArkhamAsylum

500+ Posts
pilot
I wouldn't go so far as to say ALL phrog pilots will transition. As stated, most young Captains will be fine, and most Majors will have to find a new line of work in the Marine Corps. This isn't a huge surprise, since many field grade get one tour with a squadron anyway, and then never/rarely fly again.
Based on some MARADMINS that I'm too lazy to link to, as well as briefs from monitors, and watching a squadron transition, here's what I've observed:

When an HMM becomes a VMM, the pilots come equally from three sources.
1. 1/3 of the new VMM pilots come from the HMM, and don't have to move.
2. 1/3 of the new pilots are fresh out of flight school.
3. 1/3 of the new pilots are transition pilots from other squadrons.

Now, though I haven't seen this in writing anywhere, this suggests to me that when your squadron stands down for transition, one of three things will happen:
1. 1/3 of the pilots will stay put and transition.
2. 1/3 of the pilots will PCS to a B-billet, or lat move to a new MOS.
3. 1/3 of the pilots will go to MAG/MAW/MEF staff, and wait around for item 3 above.

The MARADMIN states that those with less than 10 years of service are the target group to transition, though those with up to 13 years will be considered. Generally, this is just into the young Major zone. So, if you're above this zone (mid-Major), you've likely already had your department head tour, and are still competitive for LtCol and command selection. Since there will continue to be fewer HMM squadrons to choose from for command, this may mean we'll see more H-46 pilots commanding HQ squadrons, flight school squadrons, etc. Those who don't pick up rank/command will probably find their way to a staff position, or a new line of work that involves moving back to VA.

So, what does this mean for a SNA about to select phrogs? That depends on which duty station you select to.
If you select any squadron out of Miramar, you will likely transition with the squadron (the lucky 1/3) during your first tour.
If you select to Okinawa, you'll probably be there long enough to transition with the squadron, though there's a chance that you'll be in the group that is PCS'ing to a B-Billet when the squadron stands down. In this case, you'll have to find a new line of work, or hope to be one of the incoming transition pilots to a new squadron later on.
If you select to Camp Pendleton, you'll probably be well into your B-billet by the time your squadron transitions.

All advice and predictions posted here assume that you'll be winged during FY10. If you wing later than that, your chances of being a young captain with remaining TOS (time-on-station) increases, and thus your chance of transitioning with the squadron increases.

This post was a mixture of facts, guesses, and assumptions. Anybody with a different point of view please feel free to chime in.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
The thread was more geared towards company grade, so the "all" was directed towards them. A better way to put it would be to say, "If you're a 7562 captain who's staying in, you'll eventually be a V-22 pilot."

You may go to a B-billet, but unless you get out, you've go to come back to the fleet sometime. Unless you actively run away from the Osprey by requesting a conversion or transition to something other than the V-22 (only a couple of those a year), or go to NPS or FAO/RAO, or something that takes you off the radar for a long time, the Borg will assimilate you.

CH-46 to V-22 is now done by monitor assignment, vice board, so when he fills his oujia board, he'll send you back to a V-22 squadron.

Majors and above are separate animals. If you haven't transitioned by the time you're approaching in-zone for LtCol, you'll be scrambling for decent jobs. The monitors' website has a paper about the future of 7562s that's worth reading (CAC card required).

Then again, V-22 senior majors and ltcols are going to find themselves in weird places as they go past 16 YCS, since there are MANY more of them than V-22 squadron commands, plus they've slated a C-130 ltcol for VMM in each of the last 2 cmd boards . Staff duty, here I come!
 
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