Pilot shortage?

[FrankTheTank]

Improving performance through training and experience. What a novel concept. Any Annapolis grads around here go through NAPS?

Improving performance or bringing performance up to the minimums? Why have minimums or standards? I thought the budget was all tapped out?

And Chuck told me/us that they are high performers. My question was simple. Are they really high performers if they can’t make the cut?

 

[scoolbubba]

The NFO shortage thread is still looking for their missing village idiot.

 

[Brett327]

Improving performance or bringing performance up to the minimums? Why have minimums or standards? I thought the budget was all tapped out?

And Chuck told me/us that they are high performers. My question was simple. Are they really high performers if they can’t make the cut?

Seems like they're training them to meet the standard.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Improving performance through training and experience. What a novel concept. Any Annapolis grads around here go through NAPS?

I think NAPS is a good analogy....

 

[ChuckMK23]

Seems like they're training them to meet the standard.

From what I understand these folks are all high achievers in there current career field/MOS - and the program is supportive of driving diversity in aviation/pilots and thats a huge thing in the AF right now. Not trying to start a thread war, but there is serious soul searching going on within senior leadership. And the recognition that early coaching/mentoring/favoring early on reaps advantages a la Malcom Gladwells work. That the AF recognizes that and are all about giving that mentorship/motivation in the form of flight time and early instruction seems good to me and worthy of the investment. My feeling anyway.

 

[Brett327]

From what I understand these folks are all high achievers in there current career field/MOS - and the program is supportive of driving diversity in aviation/pilots and thats a huge thing in the AF right now. Not trying to start a thread war, but there is serious soul searching going on within senior leadership. And the recognition that early coaching/mentoring/favoring early on reaps advantages a la Malcom Gladwells work. That the AF recognizes that and are all about giving that mentorship/motivation in the form of flight time and early instruction seems good to me and worthy of the investment. My feeling anyway.

Good story on 60 minutes last night about this. I’d strongly recommend watching, for those of you who might view this as an affirmative action push.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Good story on 60 minutes last night about this. I’d strongly recommend watching, for those of you who might view this as an affirmative action push.

What else would you call it?

 

[whitesoxnation]

If they are high performers then why would they need this program? Sounds more like bringing marginal performance up to the basic standards.

Next step - bring basic standards down to marginal performance. Already happening.

 

[FinkUFreaky]

There is also a talk of an SNFO shortage within NASC. Anecdotally, I have heard it mentioned a bit less than the SNA overage, but I have heard both. Talking to other ENS, I have heard reasons including predicted budget cuts and COVID increasing time to train as reasons for the alleged SNA cuts. From what I have seen, a SNFO classes up in a matter of a few weeks at VT-10, but it has been taking 2-3 months for Milton. Oddly enough, I have not seen any traffic about redesignation at all. I might be naive (as most ENS are), but I'd bet there would be SNAs willing to head to VT-10 vice one of the SNA VTs if it came down to the overage being a real issue. I'd take a redesignation if I was asked to, but that is just me. Any flying is good flying and you still get to rock the brown shoes and be part of one of the best teams out there.

Thing is, you'll get the option to redes if you fail out depending on why you failed out. Don't rush the process man. I went through API in 2010; plan was to kick out 1/4 of the pilots. Those that didn't survive API were able to redes NFO. My older brother flunked out of tailhook intermediate; was able to redes P-3. In other words, go for what you want until you're told no; they'll figure the shit out. If the reason you failed was community specific, they'll find the right place to put ya so the money spent training you isn't completely wasted. If you're straight up not a good fit, then they will figure that out too and cut losses when they can.

 

[DanMa1156]

Improving performance through training and experience. What a novel concept. Any Annapolis grads around here go through NAPS?

I'm on board with the critics nowadays that say that NAPS is a waste of taxpayer dollars. USNA shot itself in the foot by saying "we doubled the number of applicants and USNA is harder to get into than ever! We only take the best and brightest," but couldn't answer "uh, why do you still have NAPS then? Surely it's not a redshirt program for your football team, right?" There really isn't much of a justifiable excuse for NAPS at this point.

 

[Brett327]

I'm on board with the critics nowadays that say that NAPS is a waste of taxpayer dollars. USNA shot itself in the foot by saying "we doubled the number of applicants and USNA is harder to get into than ever! We only take the best and brightest," but couldn't answer "uh, why do you still have NAPS then? Surely it's not a redshirt program for your football team, right?" There really isn't much of a justifiable excuse for NAPS at this point.

I see what you’re getting at but, I’m not sure how some math and science remediation in the grand scheme detracts from getting otherwise high quality officers. Don’t know the percentages, but a good number of the prior enlisted USNA grads started at NAPS, and I think there’s value in that at many levels. It broadens opportunity, and that’s a good thing.

 

[Jim123]

Welllllll, is there a sports NAPS for skinny nerds who would otherwise be high quality officers? (Of course not.)

For people who need NAPS because they can't make the cut to get into the Academy, maybe ROTC would be a more economic alternative for the taxpayers. That or U Phoenix/Embry-Riddle virtual campus/Liberty U distance learning followed by OCS.

I want to state that I'm a believer in not being a hater of somebody else's good deal. That said, the most amazing thing to me about the good deal that NAPS is is that the year counts towards retirement pay (although it doesn't count towards longevity pay when you're on active duty). Think about that- it basically means that guys who took five years to make it through four years of college get paid a bit more in retirement. Well-played, NAPS alumni! That's almost as good a deal as BDCP used to be... maybe better since BDCP ≠ ring knocker.

 

[insanebikerboy]

I see what you’re getting at but, I’m not sure how some math and science remediation in the grand scheme detracts from getting otherwise high quality officers. Don’t know the percentages, but a good number of the prior enlisted USNA grads started at NAPS, and I think there’s value in that at many levels. It broadens opportunity, and that’s a good thing.

I don’t know how it is now, but when I was at USNA the guys that came from NAPS were almost entirely prior-E or future varsity athletes. The argument can be made for and against varsity athletes but I think it’s a great thing for the prior-e that may not have been #1 in his high school class and needs a little refresher in schooling.

I’m sure they exist, but I can’t seem to recall a regular dude that wasn’t prior-e or an athlete that went to NAPS.

Oh, good ‘ole Professor Fleming coined the lovely term ‘set aside’ for those folks, and a few others. That was quite the stir

 

[Brett327]

I’m sure they exist, but I can’t seem to recall a regular dude that wasn’t prior-e or an athlete that went to NAPS.

My boss at NAWDC is one. Seems like, in his case, it was worth the effort.

 

[DanMa1156]

My boss at NAWDC is one. Seems like, in his case, it was worth the effort.

I think over time it has shifted to become basically a redshirt year for the football team. I'm sure in its inception that wasn't the design for it. And there are ways to get E's up to speed without having an entire institution for them; and the number of E's is incredibly small each year, and even smaller when you take out the ones who were plucked directly from Nuke school. NAPS is an unjustifiable expense in my opinion. We're taking the best and brightest, competition is fierce... and yet 20% of the student body isn't good enough to get in the first time around?

Welllllll, is there a sports NAPS for skinny nerds who would otherwise be high quality officers? (Of course not.)

For people who need NAPS because they can't make the cut to get into the Academy, maybe ROTC would be a more economic alternative for the taxpayers. That or U Phoenix/Embry-Riddle virtual campus/Liberty U distance learning followed by OCS.

I want to state that I'm a believer in not being a hater of somebody else's good deal. That said, the most amazing thing to me about the good deal that NAPS is is that the year counts towards retirement pay (although it doesn't count towards longevity pay when you're on active duty). Think about that- it basically means that guys who took five years to make it through four years of college get paid a bit more in retirement. Well-played, NAPS alumni! That's almost as good a deal as BDCP used to be... maybe better since BDCP ≠ ring knocker.

Full disclosure, there kind of is (was?) and I was a graduate of that program. The USNA Foundation program was a program (I'm not sure if it's still in existence) to send people to civilian traditional prep schools. I did that program, and by the time I was leaving the Academy it was getting cut as a result of increased applications (even at the time it was about 60-80 folks per year). I also suspect if I had to compete in today's environment in the Congressional district I came from, I would not have gotten in in today's USNA applicant environment. The Foundation program was funded by Alumni and the student, not the taxpayer, though.