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Pilot shortage?

picklesuit

Dirty Hinge
pilot
Contributor
How does one assess intangible capabilities?
Leadership opportunities, whether in club/sports/shop/division/department roles...success in programs with an attrition rate (BUDS/Nuke/NACCS), non-trad performance opportunities (large business, state/federal agencies, civil participation)...
Pretty much the same way we always figure out how to sort who is a winner without resorting to a standardized test...

Any other silly questions?
 

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
Yeah - how do you do that for people who aren’t enlisted?

(this is all tongue-in-cheek cause the best predictor of performance has been GPA since they started measuring such things)
 

picklesuit

Dirty Hinge
pilot
Contributor
Yeah - how do you do that for people who aren’t enlisted?

(this is all tongue-in-cheek cause the best predictor of performance has been GPA since they started measuring such things)
Already answered your question. Reading comprehension is still important (and measured within the GPA).

I’m not invalidating grades as a measure of success, I’m saying they aren’t the only thing that makes one successful.

I had mediocre grades in college (3.02 in Animal Science), barely met the minimums to pass the ASTB, and still managed to succeed in Naval Aviation. If you predicted my career on GPA alone, I’d never have gotten in the door...
 

PhrogLoop

Adulting is hard
pilot
Not at the Air Force Academy...


Great man, great family. I got to meet him when I was a high school nerd and introduced him at the Junior Achievement NYC gala. His son’s family became my USNA sponsors. He was a West Point grad, BTW.
 

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
Already answered your question

my dude, you spent the first part of your answer talking about things that only apply to prior enlisted folks, hence the question.

I had mediocre grades
doth protest too much, etc

You were a tracom instructor - you know the signals for reduced success rates requiring intervention at syllabus start, and they’re very much tangible.

looking at the larger picture, those same tangible attributes are very much valid in the aggregate. There’ll be folks on the tails, as you point out, but they are outliers.
 

johnboyA6E

Well-Known Member
None
If a third + of the class is prior E at this point, that's really substantial and fantastic, in my opinion, and likely reason to keep NAPS around.

it's not. for class of '24, only 79 had any prior military experience. of those, only 18 went direct to USNA, 61 went to NAPS.

there were 198 total from NAPS, 137 of them with no military background. Of those 137, a very large majority are either varsity redshirts (mostly football and lacrosse) or diversity candidates.

there is a stat that USNA throws around, that " 1/3 or midshipman have some post HS education", maybe that's the point of confusion.

As a BGO, I agree with previous posts, that's it's really hard to predict who will get appointed and who won't. As far as NAPS, it's original mission of supporting fleet sailors with the potential to become officers is certainly justified. But it's current mission, which is primarily a combination of supporting diversity numbers and supporting competitive Div 1 sports is more debatable.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
But it's current mission, which is primarily a combination of supporting diversity numbers and supporting competitive Div 1 sports is more debatable.
Yyyyyep. There are plenty of avenues to getting a commission for those folks that don't involve going to the acahhhdemy and cost less too. I get it though, that's not the rules of the game right now.

I'm not dead seat against it, far from it. Life's not fair and one of the things that's unfair about it is that some people, among the "scholastically challenged," have the misfortune of spending their formative years in very difficult environments. At the same time, it's a big asterisk that the person didn't make the cut, well, not outright.
 

picklesuit

Dirty Hinge
pilot
Contributor
Leadership opportunities, whether in club/sports/shop/division/department roles...success in programs with an attrition rate (BUDS/Nuke/NACCS), non-trad performance opportunities (large business, state/federal agencies, civil participation)...
Pretty much the same way we always figure out how to sort who is a winner without resorting to a standardized test...

Any other silly questions?
my dude, you spent the first part of your answer talking about things that only apply to prior enlisted folks, hence the question.

doth protest too much, etc

You were a tracom instructor - you know the signals for reduced success rates requiring intervention at syllabus start, and they’re very much tangible.

looking at the larger picture, those same tangible attributes are very much valid in the aggregate. There’ll be folks on the tails, as you point out, but they are outliers.
I count six for civilian, six military specific, opportunities listed...
As for attributes, there were definitely statistics tied to performance in IFS and API, but those were indicative of more than JUST academic performance. If you failed in API it wasn’t because you were stupid (generally) it was because you couldn’t figure out how to work in a team environment.

If you failed in IFS it wasn’t because you were stupid, it was because you were, generally, aeronautically unadapted.

The rest of the pink sheets I saw were for issues with integrity/responsibility...

Back to the original subject matter of the necessity of NAPS, I can’t see how one could, on one hand, argue there is an implicit bias affecting socioeconomically disadvantaged populations while, on the other hand, argue there shouldn’t be a method to correct them and level the playing field. If anything, NAPS should be the ultimate example of how to properly level the opportunity gap by providing remedial instruction to then remove any excuses from a potential candidate when they are subject to the rigors of an Academy experience.

I think the consensus here is the mission is valid for accessing enlisted candidates, there is some issue with the affirmative action mission of NAPS (see above paragraph) and there is a lot of pushback for athletes getting government funded remediation.

My argument for the latter is most Americans will only see a service academy student on TV when they are representing their respective school in sports. That’s an important tool for recruitment, especially if we really hold diversity important, as the audience is much wider than the standard academic pitch one sees in school.

To bring this ramble to a close, if we truly want leadership from all slices of life, we have to be willing to invest in those who may be weak in one area (academics) but excel in others (leadership/sports/etc.)
 

SELRES_AMDO

Well-Known Member
My opinion is the Navy gets a pretty substantial return on their football players.

College football players are usually left with lifelong injuries from their playing time. The Navy makes a bunch of money and gets publicity from the football team. A player gets an education and serves his time in the military. Seems like a reasonable tradeoff to me.

Funny story about GPA. I had a 2.3 GPA my first semester in college. The Navy didn't seem to care because I remedied the issue and finished strong. However, my first federal job interview post Navy seemed to care. Some GS15 Navy civilian pulls my transcripts out and asks me about it. Didn't get the job. Later found out he just wanted to hire his friend's kid and needed to knock the veteran off the top of the list in order to ask for an exception.
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
Would encourage all of you to read the AF diversity report for some context. It just reaffirms my own understanding that the demographic discrepancies inherent in the force are cast by society well before anyone gets near an accession or aviator training program. Disparities exist, to be sure but .mil policies are not responsible for those disparities. As leaders it’s still our duty to find and seek out where we can add balance and promote and advocate for qualified folks from under represented backgrounds...
 
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