Storm27324
Well-Known Member
Will you clarify this misunderstanding? My knowledge is based on community briefs saying as much so I don't know lol
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Platform Selection E-2 vs P-8
- Thread starter Storm27324
- Start date
Except that's not true.
There's a crew coordination matrix, and each crewmember's workload ebbs and flows depending on what is going on. While the pilot will generally focus on flying and A/A, and ARM, they are absolutely capable and expected to be able to do the same tasks as the EWO, and if the EWO is task saturated, the pilot will be able to pick up that EWO workload, including ES and EA tasks. As threats are detected, both crewmembers are actively prosecuting the contact to ID, set up kinetic and/or non-kinetic effects, while communicating the threat to other aircraft via voice and MIDS. It is far too complex an environment for one guy to just fly the jet.
Curious now who gave you what was apparently a horrible community brief. Probably a P-8 guy.
Storm27324
Well-Known Member
Supposedly a Growler guy lol, He left out that tactic share of the overall mission and CRM as you have laid out, except to say that for a growler to be a single seat, the pilot would need 4 hands and an IQ of 180 🤣 Guess he was paraphrasing for us dumb SNAs lolThere's a crew coordination matrix, and each crewmember's workload ebbs and flows depending on what is going on. While the pilot will generally focus on flying and A/A, and ARM, they are absolutely capable and expected to be able to do the same tasks as the EWO, and if the EWO is task saturated, the pilot will be able to pick up that EWO workload, including ES and EA tasks. As threats are detected, both crewmembers are actively prosecuting the contact to ID, set up kinetic and/or non-kinetic effects, while communicating the threat to other aircraft via voice and MIDS. It is far too complex an environment for one guy to just fly the jet.
Curious now who gave you what was apparently a horrible community brief. Probably a P-8 guy.
Thank you for setting me straight.
As a general rule, we don't send our best to the VTs.
If you want to feel like the king of the world, go jets. If you want a crew makeup, still want to be in the “real navy” and deploy on a carrier, be a part of the air wing, and fly a historic/classic yet highly capable airframe with modern sensors, go E-2. If you want to fly separate from the air wing as an independent inorganic asset, operate from shore sites, fly for 8-14 hours, track submarines, and roll with enlisted specialists and 5 officers, (easy airline transfer), then I’d pursue P-8s.
Not a pilot, obviously
But some of the briefs I have seen lately about the E-2D are amazing. They have capabilities and are wired into "things" much more than organic CVW operations.
The term "Force Multiplier" comes to mind . . .
Which is a damn shame. I get the why behind that decision, but I could never understand why many communities straight-up shun the VTs. We are training the seed corn of the entire enterprise. There are a ton of awesome guys and gals in the VTs busting their ass, doing a dangerous job in the Pensacola/Corpus heat.
The hard chargers we get in my squadron know the lay of the land. They know they have an uphill battle to be competitive if they want to stay in. It sucks.
Part of it for us is no one wants to live in Meridian or Kingsville.
Storm27324
Well-Known Member
Which is also a shame. I was stationed in Kingsville, met my wife in Corpus. Honestly we prefer Kings/Corpus to Pensacola. I guess people don't like that its in the middle of nowhere. Not familiar with Meridian.
Caveat that I’ve been out of the E-2 world for a while so my info’s a bit dated, but I flew the Hawkeye 2000 birds in the Fleet and E-2D in flight test. The division of crew duties in the E-2 is pretty stark. The pilots don’t do much “mission” stuff and the FOs don’t have much to do with flying the plane. The former part may have changed with the D’s Tactical Cockpit - the pilots have the ability to bring up a mission display and they have a kneeboard with trackball and keyboard - but since they aren’t trained AICs they can “see” a lot more than they can “do”.
I liked being an AIC but I wish I’d known that as a Hummer FO most of the fun parts of flying you get to experience is limited to what you can see peeping through the little window in the back around the starboard nacelle. By the same token, I’ve known some E-2 pilots who felt kind of bored not being involved in the actual mission (most of them are happy to leave the nerd shit to the Trunk Monkeys, though) and the only “tactical” thing they do is flying around the Boat.
That said, the D is pretty cool. It can actually do what NGC promised it’d be able to do, the weapon system is light-years beyond what the APS-145 planes could do.
I liked being an AIC but I wish I’d known that as a Hummer FO most of the fun parts of flying you get to experience is limited to what you can see peeping through the little window in the back around the starboard nacelle. By the same token, I’ve known some E-2 pilots who felt kind of bored not being involved in the actual mission (most of them are happy to leave the nerd shit to the Trunk Monkeys, though) and the only “tactical” thing they do is flying around the Boat.
That said, the D is pretty cool. It can actually do what NGC promised it’d be able to do, the weapon system is light-years beyond what the APS-145 planes could do.
Regardless of what some higher ups in various communities think of the VTs, being a VT Pilot is arguably one of the greatest QoL jobs in the entire NAE. Nowhere else in the Navy do you have an effectively endless flight hours allocation, great flexibility in your day-to-day schedule, get to go on CCX almost any weekend you want to, all while flying a fairly new aircraft that’s an absolute blast to fly. Almost every JO that leaves their VT tour says that it was the most enjoyable and awesome tour of their career.
For those that worry that heading to a CNATRA billet makes them “not as bright” in the eyes of the Navy, you can be laughing all the way to the bank flying 500-700 hours a year with a solid work/life balance, setting yourself up for civilian opportunities if you choose to get out. And while sure, your chances of making OP Command are fairly low, There’s a lot of doors that open up to you (CNATRA Selres, CNATRA TAR/Command, contractor jobs, etc). When some doors close, others open 😀
Storm27324
Well-Known Member
At the risk of derailing my own OP;
Very far in my future, but I was thinking VT for my first shore tour (with two locations, Kings/Corpus close to family, VT is extremely appealing). If I chose VT, what about VT makes it hard to screen for command? You're adding to the fleet, you are gaining your hours, you are in the cockpit, If you maintain competitive FITREPS i don't see the disconnect. I also don't know "THE Golden Path" other than "Stay Grey." One PPTX showed "NAWDC, TRAINO, STAFF, DH etc.." something like that but we do hear a lot of "Stay away from the orange and white" and we haven't even flown yet.
What are some of the doors opened for those that choose to remain active? For the enlisted side we are given a ladder of sorts and it basically spells out our options and where we should be with time in vs grade and even goes to show us what qualifications we should have by that point in our career. I have found nothing for the O side or the Pilot side and pardon the pun, were all flying blind here with nothing but hearsay and "do this, avoid that" with no real explanation
FormerRecruitingGuru
Making Recruiting Great Again
Disclaimer: I am not a brown shoe (i.e. a 13XX).
As an officer you ought to start looking at the community briefs as well as merit reorder slides, linked here:
The former (briefs) will go into detail as to what or where you should be doing during your career. You also ought to check out the various promotion board briefs, similarly it will break down the various "wickets" you need in terms of being seriously considered for promotion to LCDR, CDR and CAPT.
Lastly, merit reorder briefs ought to be goals if you want to promote, move up, etc. - even if you don't end up being merit reordered and simply selected for promotion.
The current CNATRA paddles is a great friend of mine. He's a great pilot, an even better IP, and awesome friend. @zippy will attest to this as well. His mark on Naval aviation is in flying around, and on to, the boat. He absolutely loves it, and he loves teaching young and old pilots how to do it. I've known him for 18 years and I've never heard him talk about the E-2 mission. But there are countless stories about being the first off as a weather bird, and being the last on a pitching deck in crummy weather at night.
If you have ANY experience in the military, you should know that you're wasting your time with such planning. Study hard, fly well, and get through tomorrow. What happens in 3 months is well beyond your control. Planning 3 years from now will only disappoint you.
Enjoy today. Don't worry about tomorrow.