Platform Selection E-2 vs P-8

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

might be a dumb thought, but in VP land that sounds like that would cause you to removed from your rare good deal disassociated sea tour at a flying job (aka not shooter), after already having your shore tour cut short (because they still haven’t figured out how to keep us on track with non-aviators), and be forced into your DH tour. Again, might be naïve, but it seems like a “no good deed goes unpunished” situation. Is that different in other platforms? Based on some of my peer’s timing and how long it took to go from ROTC commissioning to winging, you’d think they would be inclined to stave off O-4 for as long as possible to avoid a pigeon hole. But that’s because it seems any pilot with a pulse that isn’t smart enough to get out for an airline gig is being picked up for DH anyway, WTI or not.

Not sure what you're responding to. Are you talking about merit reorder? Why do you think that would cut your disassociated tour short?

I had a SWO buddy get selected and merit reordered. He told me that while it was nice to get promoted earlier, it ended up having ramifications in which now his timing was impacted, had to shift gears, and get into his next milestone (CDR afloat) sooner so he can complete that before being in zone for O-6. If he was a "normal" selection and promoted the following year (i.e. a 1 Sept promotion), it would have given him more time on shore duty before getting into the sea slating process sooner.

I can imagine the other URLs including aviation are the same.

 

[Mos]

It seemed like VP had the opposite problem and DHes were doing a pre-DH tour for a year before getting their DH orders. I've also known SMTIs that made O-4 but hadn't heard of anyone getting that tour cut short. It's been a while since I've paid any attention to this, so maybe times have changed.

 

[taxi1]

Yes, I’ve never heard him or any other E-2 pilot talk about anything tactical or tacticool…

If you want to understand E2 pilotry and their role in the greater scheme of things, watch Rosenkrantz and Guildenstern are Dead.

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead is an absurdist, existential tragicomedy by Tom Stoppard… The play expands upon the exploits of two minor characters from Shakespeare's Hamlet, the courtiers Rosencrantz and Guildenstern…

The action of Stoppard's play takes place mainly "in the wings" of Shakespeare's Hamlet, with brief appearances of major characters from Hamletwho enact fragments of the original's scenes. Between these episodes, the two protagonists voice their confusion at the progress of events occurring onstage without them in Hamlet, of which they have no direct knowledge.

 

[haubby]

I had a SWO buddy get selected and merit reordered. He told me that while it was nice to get promoted earlier, it ended up having ramifications in which now his timing was impacted, had to shift gears, and get into his next milestone (CDR afloat) sooner so he can complete that before being in zone for O-6. If he was a "normal" selection and promoted the following year (i.e. a 1 Sept promotion), it would have given him more time on shore duty before getting into the sea slating process sooner.

I can imagine the other URLs including aviation are the same.

This is very real and while it's awesome and great to be promoted early, the unintended consequence is moving year groups. No one bats an eye when you shift to the right for one reason or another, but when you shift to the left, that's less time ashore and less time to decompress between jobs. Since merit reordering has been a thing, there are SWO's I know who were merit reordered for both LCDR and CDR which puts them two years ahead of their peers.

 

[Waveoff]

I had a SWO buddy get selected and merit reordered. He told me that while it was nice to get promoted earlier, it ended up having ramifications in which now his timing was impacted, had to shift gears, and get into his next milestone (CDR afloat) sooner so he can complete that before being in zone for O-6. If he was a "normal" selection and promoted the following year (i.e. a 1 Sept promotion), it would have given him more time on shore duty before getting into the sea slating process sooner.

I can imagine the other URLs including aviation are the same.

Thanks that is effectively what I was getting at. It’s common to see SMTIs put on O-4 during their tour (which for us is a disassociated tour in regards to timing after shore tour), and some get orders cut early because they are now too senior for the role.

 

[SynixMan]

Thanks that is effectively what I was getting at. It’s common to see SMTIs put on O-4 during their tour (which for us is a disassociated tour in regards to timing after shore tour), and some get orders cut early because they are now too senior for the role.

They should be managed as 1 of 1 O-4(SEL) paper and shuffled out before they can impact the DH FITREPs.

 

[CommodoreMid]

I spent the last 7 months of my SMTI tour as an O-4, did not get tour cut short. Then rolled directly into my DH tour. They’ve changed the rules since then requiring SMTIs even with my type of timing to do an I-stop at 30, which could have implications for O-5 timing.

 

[Uncle Fester]

The current CNATRA paddles is a great friend of mine. He's a great pilot, an even better IP, and awesome friend. @zippy will attest to this as well. His mark on Naval aviation is in flying around, and on to, the boat. He absolutely loves it, and he loves teaching young and old pilots how to do it. I've known him for 18 years and I've never heard him talk about the E-2 mission. But there are countless stories about being the first off as a weather bird, and being the last on a pitching deck in crummy weather at night.

Yeah that was always a fun feeling. Getting launched off to weather recce in Afg with forecast t-storms topping off halfway to the fucking Moon, in a non-ejection seat airplane, and the only open diverts are in Pakistan. Good times.

The pilots in the community take pride (justifiably) in being the last old-school tailhookers in the air wing. No HUD, no coupled approaches, no auto-throttles, just eyeball and hand-flying. Coming aboard single-engine isn’t an emergency but it’s too close to one for comfort - I was in the back for one coming back low-state from Iraq and the Boss was apparently seriously considering rigging the barricade. But yeah, I’ve heard more than one pilot talk about how it’s hard to feel like a war fighter when you’re just sitting there listening to Strike Common and monitoring the George. I’ve heard of pilots getting FNAEBed (my first squadron, slightly before my time) because they both fell asleep on-station and didn’t wake up until the rudder shakers went.

(Means you were really close to stalling, and departing the E-2 is a huge no-no)

 

[Griz882]

Also, keep in mind that of the many friendly, and enemy, aircraft shown in Top Gun 2 the P-8 failed to make the cut while the E-2 stood out in a necessary and distantly heroic role. I mean, if you’re looking for some street cred.

 

[FLGUY]

Also, keep in mind that of the many friendly, and enemy, aircraft shown in Top Gun 2 the P-8 failed to make the cut while the E-2 stood out in a necessary and distantly heroic role. I mean, if you’re looking for some street cred.

View attachment 40769

The P-8 was too busy doing ASW playing spy plane and flying ISR for the 100th time that month.

 

[Brett327]

I had a SWO buddy get selected and merit reordered. He told me that while it was nice to get promoted earlier, it ended up having ramifications in which now his timing was impacted, had to shift gears, and get into his next milestone (CDR afloat) sooner so he can complete that before being in zone for O-6. If he was a "normal" selection and promoted the following year (i.e. a 1 Sept promotion), it would have given him more time on shore duty before getting into the sea slating process sooner.

I can imagine the other URLs including aviation are the same.

Merit reorder shouldn’t affect your timing for the next milestone or impact tour length. Lots of people have been pulled up to the next SG though. That has been happening for several years, but I can see how someone might presume that was due to a reorder, but it isn’t.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Also, keep in mind that of the many friendly, and enemy, aircraft shown in Top Gun 2 the P-8 failed to make the cut while the E-2 stood out in a necessary and distantly heroic role. I mean, if you’re looking for some street cred.

View attachment 40769

#representationinmediamatters ✊🏻

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Merit reorder shouldn’t affect your timing for the next milestone or impact tour length. Lots of people have been pulled up to the next SG though. That has been happening for several years, but I can see how someone might presume that was due to a reorder, but it isn’t.

My friend was told straight from the horses mouth at PERS. “Congrats on the merit reorder… but now we need to adjust your shore duty so you have plenty of time to complete CO afloat and training before being in zone for O-6.”

 

[Brett327]

Thanks that is effectively what I was getting at. It’s common to see SMTIs put on O-4 during their tour (which for us is a disassociated tour in regards to timing after shore tour), and some get orders cut early because they are now too senior for the role.

That’s pretty standard, though and shouldn’t affect tour length. In TACAIR communities, TOs are their own summary group, so they won’t compete with the other LTs, or O4s once they put that on.

 

[Mos]

I think the moment any screen writer learns what a patrol plane actually does is the moment they realize they can't really make a movie featuring patrol planes (at least not for modern audiences). Probably the most significant movie scenes we have is of the PBYs looking for the Japanese fleet in the 1976 Midway film. I was disappointed that they didn't feature in the 2019 film, but understand completely. The mission may be interesting to us, but the general public just isn't going to get it.