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Possibility of NFO to Pilot.
- Thread starter Venom-0
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IceWoman04 said:
contrary to whatever brainwashing you receive in FO-school, some of us do manage to get along in single-seat aircraft or miraculously not crash if we're not dualed up. I know it's tough to believe, but some communities/airframes require the pilot to do all the work of stickmonkey, and *gasp* an NFO.
Man, what's up with all the bashing. Where the **** do you hear me say that Being an NFO SUCKS????? Stop acting like bunch of jerkwads and get off my damn back. I don't, even for a second, think that the pilots are better the NFOs or vice versa. ****, Some of the coolest guys I know in the Navy are NFOs so all you getting on my case, get the hell off my back. Just because it's not something I want to do, doesn't mean I think badly of it. :icon_rage ....
Sorry but this message isn't for everyone who replied, just a few who don't know when to shut the hell up and start assuming their own BS.
Sorry but this message isn't for everyone who replied, just a few who don't know when to shut the hell up and start assuming their own BS.
Squeeze, I agree with your sentiment, however, you're talking about a totally different mission than a platform that is designed for a dual (or more) crew. Hats off to those who ride single, I couldn't do it, so don't feel any disrespect coming at you from my way. Viper-o just hacked me off because he echoes the b&@^!ing of so many guys who didn't make the grade. My point is that you knew going in that 42.5 was the standard since they published that in Decemeber 2004. If you didn't make the grade then you didn't make the grade. Don't pull some sob $H!T about how the Navy screwed you and how you should have stuck to the Air Force.
The other argument guys make is how they know someone from FY-whatever who had a lower score (like a 38 or whatever) who is now going jets. The idea there is that somehow they got screwed and that the dude with the 38 is some idiot who doesn't deserve the jet slot. Thing is, there was no NSS req of 42.5 when that cat went through so you don't know if he couls have made the 42.5. Also, the way the NSS is derived has altered somewhat under the new rules, so a 38 from two years ago is not neccesarily equivalent to a 38 this week.
As for FY-05 guys having lower NSS's, oh well. Welcome to the military. Needs of the Navy and all that. Things change and a man (or woman) is measured by how he (or she) responds to it.
As for switching to Pilot after doing an NFO gig. You would have to get winged, at the least - prob have a tour as well before you could come back. If you are young enough it may work. Don't know for sure if the Navy has some restriction about reentering an MOS you were processed out of once. I think I heard from a buddy in your situation that you could NOT do it, but please don't take my word for it. Ask LT hammer or Mr. Nichols. As for getting out, I can tell you that my brother is an AF Pilot and I talked to him a few minutes ago and he said it would be possible but tough. It's harder to get a flight slot from the AF than anywhere else, period. Your record might help, but who knows. As for the Marines, the rumor mill is that they always need pilots so that may be a possibility if you're willing to do the 6 months of TBS.
To sum up: 1) Single-seat guys can do more $h!t simultaneously than me (and as such probably have a happier wife than I)
2) Multi-crew aircraft require all members to respect what each brings to the table (or to at least to know where the hot towels are kept),
3) Starting a thread that is presumably about getting advice for a huge life decision and then $h!tting on the folkes you're asking is just freaking stupid,
4) Ask LT. Hammer or Mr. Nichols for advice on switching later on since they have their fingers closest to the pulse.
The other argument guys make is how they know someone from FY-whatever who had a lower score (like a 38 or whatever) who is now going jets. The idea there is that somehow they got screwed and that the dude with the 38 is some idiot who doesn't deserve the jet slot. Thing is, there was no NSS req of 42.5 when that cat went through so you don't know if he couls have made the 42.5. Also, the way the NSS is derived has altered somewhat under the new rules, so a 38 from two years ago is not neccesarily equivalent to a 38 this week.
As for FY-05 guys having lower NSS's, oh well. Welcome to the military. Needs of the Navy and all that. Things change and a man (or woman) is measured by how he (or she) responds to it.
As for switching to Pilot after doing an NFO gig. You would have to get winged, at the least - prob have a tour as well before you could come back. If you are young enough it may work. Don't know for sure if the Navy has some restriction about reentering an MOS you were processed out of once. I think I heard from a buddy in your situation that you could NOT do it, but please don't take my word for it. Ask LT hammer or Mr. Nichols. As for getting out, I can tell you that my brother is an AF Pilot and I talked to him a few minutes ago and he said it would be possible but tough. It's harder to get a flight slot from the AF than anywhere else, period. Your record might help, but who knows. As for the Marines, the rumor mill is that they always need pilots so that may be a possibility if you're willing to do the 6 months of TBS.
To sum up: 1) Single-seat guys can do more $h!t simultaneously than me (and as such probably have a happier wife than I)
2) Multi-crew aircraft require all members to respect what each brings to the table (or to at least to know where the hot towels are kept),
3) Starting a thread that is presumably about getting advice for a huge life decision and then $h!tting on the folkes you're asking is just freaking stupid,
4) Ask LT. Hammer or Mr. Nichols for advice on switching later on since they have their fingers closest to the pulse.
API as a chopping block? I still dont fully agree with this personally....obvously this is the cheapest way to cut the number of O's before the cost of training goes upl, but API is almost nothing like the rest of training. I guess it is just a hurdle along the journey to get your wings. Weird thing is I met a couple of really well known and respected F-14 pilots who told me they barely made it out of API back in the day. Just because someone is a good busy worker, does not prove them to be a good pilot. Some people get into the cockpit a freeze up...while others feel at home. I still think Primary would be a better chopping block.
This statement has to be the aviation equivalent of, "...but some of my best friends are black"Venom-0 said:
As for the NFO/Pilot relationship, NFOs are wrong to think of it in terms of "telling the pilot what to do." I understand that these ideas are part of flight school lore and what not, but I think that UI has the right idea. I know this issue has been beat to death over the past months, but the NFO/Pilot relationship isn't some kind of Freudian struggle for who gets to have control of the aircraft. On the extreme side, either of you may be the junior, inexperienced guy who has to be helped along to do what has to be done by your more seasoned MC. Sometimes, that means you get told to STFU and do X,Y or Z, front or back seat. Ideally, you'll work together as a crew, each knowing the other's strengths and weaknesses, so both of you can alternately rely on or help out the other guy when things get busy.
Keeping it real (admittedly, sans black belt)
Brett
OK, everyone just needs to simmer down. Venom, if you don't feel like you should be an NFO...first, talk to a NFO...Not of the forum but IRL. Find someone cool in API or wing six to talk to. Now, I am a FO so obviously I am biased. But, all in all, I think the adversarial relationship is BS. I can't conduct a strike without my pilots getting me where I need to be. They are skilled and generally awesome operators. Trust me, sit in a tube with no windows and trust a dude to land you on the boat and you will understand how FO's need pilots. It's some hairy stuff. My gut tells me that if you do not want to be a FO, don't do it. You will attrite. It's not because you are not smart. It's because you won't want it. That's really the sticking point in flight school. You have got to be of the opinion that no matter what crap you will go through (and there will be a lot) you will do whatever it takes to get your wings. Everyone who has their wings probably at one time came to the wall and asked themselves the tough question of whether they should continue. I sure did. I stuck it out and it was the best decision of my life. So, if you want to fly, fly. If you just want to be a pilot, then don't go FO. You will just hate life. Trust me...chum by hand for an entire weekend and you will know what wanting it means. I think I have babbled enough about this. I understand your frustration about potentially not getting what you want. That's just bad timing. Most guys on this forum have gotten jacked one way or the other. It's just something you have to deal with. Oh, one last thing, API means jack dude. You will brain dump all of this crap once you get to Primary. I literally had my first instructor for Wx in Primary say, "Yeah, all that crap you learned in API, dump it." Warm and fuzzy boys, warm and fuzzy. Good luck.
goplay234 said:
Word.
Primary "Aero" pretty much consists of knowing that if you push the stick forward, the trees get bigger, and that a stall might happen after your rudders shake for a while.
API was good for one thing only: Prepping you for the memorization academy that is Primary.
Oh - it also taught me that I am a Navigator-Warrior. Ooh Rah!
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