President Obama's Military

[phrogpilot73]

And how the fvck is sending shitbags to a community with retention problems supposed to fix the problem?

How are they shitbags? Take a step back and look at it this way. This website exists because of Steve Wilkins.

Yes, he passed it on to web-san, but it was Steve that started it. He realized that the aviation world wasn't for him, and became a successful SWO officer. Those same individuals are now being shown the door. Redes them. If they fail miserably (aka don't get their SWO pin) then show them the door. You can't say they're shitbags because they're currently in the wrong line of work.

However, I agree that the problem is not with the JO (O-1/O-2) newbies. It's with the senior JO's. It takes a bit of time to build the experience/knowledge of those that are leaving.

 

[OUSOONER]

And how the fvck is sending shitbags to a community with retention problems supposed to fix the problem?

So a SNA or SNFO who gets NPQ from NAMI and still wants to contribute somewhere in the military is a shitbag?

What about a guy who goes through OCS with a SEAL contract..but doesn't make it through BUD/S? My bet is that they can still contribute and be an asset to the Navy.

* I'm just arguing your claim that they are shitbags, not that it will fix the senior JO manning problems.

 

[BigRed389]

My bad, misinterpretation on my part.
I thought you meant the guys who failed out due to laziness/incompetence.
And I figure most NPQ guys would probably prefer to walk.

But you could also make the argument that non-qual SWOs shouldn't be considered shitbags and should be given a shot at redsignating rather than get booted out.
I honestly have met some guys(usually engineering types) who were very, very good at their jobs, and by some weird set of circumstances got screwed out of getting qual'd on time, but usually, it's because they sucked.

The bias is also based on my own personal experience with flight school attrites...both I met failed out due to laziness, which they both admit.
On top of that, they're the type of JO that MAKES work for the others and yes, they're failing miserably by your definition. They need "special" attention which also slows the progress of quals for competent JOs.

EDIT: This also doesnt take into consideration the (to my mind) strange habit the SWO community has of qualifying EVERYBODY. Apparently we're hurting for JOs to stay in so bad, you can screw 2 enlisted guys, actually get CAUGHT having inappropriate relations on two occasions(through email correspondence), and still get pinned and make LTJG.

On retention: about half the DHs I've met on my ship and others are prior enlisted with enough time they figure they might as well stay in, take the shot at the 70% selection rate for O-4 and retire.

 

[Clux4]

Had dinner at my folks house a while back, and my parents had also invited a classmate of his from USNA (retired 3 star who knows the now CJCS pretty well). As we were expressing our JO-level frustration about it, he added a bit of clarity.

He said the reason they came to be/are still around is not about helping the Army out, nor was it ever. It was keeping the Navy in the forefront of the politicians minds as "team players", and proving that no matter what (protracted land war, war of the high seas, etc) the Navy is viable so they don't take it in the shorts come budget time. Contrast that with the AF who isn't playing the IA game as much as the Navy is, and how their budget is being fine-tooth combed. Never underestimate the level of politics at the senior levels.

I really do not know what the EWO's do these days. Frankly, anyone can do their job. But I guess the retired 3 stars insight explains this.

But do we really think the National Guard and Big Army can really cope with the manning. I was talking to an Army O-3 the other day and he was telling me he has spent a total of 9 months in the past 3 years at home. Mind you their duel time includes time they spend preparing to come back out. I am not sure anyone has the answer to the manning problems. We are just not prepared to fight long extended wars. I have a Marine that has been to Iraq 4 times and he is only an E-4. The Airforce might be the only people not complaining as much.

This is an insurgency and when it boils down to it, we need more boots on the ground. We have the personnel but none are trained to soldier.(Sailors and Soldiers are not Soldiers).
Just think about how much KBR has shouldered in terms of support personnel. It would be worse if we had to depend on military electricians, plumbers, carepentars to support all the Camps around Iraq. We do not even have enough Seabee Battalions to go around.

I think manning is a bigger issue than people realize.

 

[FrankTheTank]

He said the reason they came to be/are still around is not about helping the Army out, nor was it ever. It was keeping the Navy in the forefront of the politicians minds as "team players", and proving that no matter what (protracted land war, war of the high seas, etc) the Navy is viable so they don't take it in the shorts come budget time. Contrast that with the AF who isn't playing the IA game as much as the Navy is, and how their budget is being fine-tooth combed. Never underestimate the level of politics at the senior levels.

Politics! Plain and simple... Nice rant BTW!

 

[MIDNJAC]

My bad, misinterpretation on my part.
I thought you meant the guys who failed out due to laziness/incompetence.

Maybe this wasn't your personal experience with the "fallen angels" you have worked with, but I will say that I have yet to see anyone in the TRACOM get attrited because of laziness....maybe incompetence, but that is not always within your control. I'm sure there are guys out there who were lazy bags and are rightly out on their asses now, but it hasn't been my experience (yet anyway).

 

[Flash]

In related news, Obama's Air Force is seeking to recall 1600 rated retirees.

That would be the United States Air Force.

Edit: Reports this morning of a drone sortie into Pakistan with a few kills. Does something of this magnitude (violating sovereignty) require direct approval from the President much like other 'secret' SoF missions into Waziristan?

If someone on this board knew they probably will not, should not and could not say anything about it in a public forum. This is one thing you just have to accept not knowing.

 

[OUSOONER]

Edit: Reports this morning of a drone sortie into Pakistan with a few kills. Does something of this magnitude (violating sovereignty) require direct approval from the President much like other 'secret' SoF missions into Waziristan?

If someone on this board knew they probably will not, should not and could not say anything about it in a public forum. This is one thing you just have to accept not knowing.

Flash, I know what you are getting at and I agree with you.

However, President Obama DID state in one of his debates that if a target of opportunity revealed itself in Pakistan, he would authorize the use of force regardless if permission was given by Pakistan. So that is no secret at all.

 

[SkywardET]

I am reminded of a picture I saw a few years ago. It was of a cynical but rather true poster in one of the bases in either Iraq or Afghanistan and it said something to the effect of, "America is not at war. The Marine Corps is at war. America is at the mall."

Having been in the Navy for four years, three of which have been on a warship, I can tell you that the Navy is not at war in my experience. I can certainly understand that small parts of the Navy are actually at war, but those are limited to FMF corpmen, special forces, and individual augmentees. Perhaps (and you guys would know) Aviators and Flight Officers would contend that their experience has been that they are at war, but for the majority of the Navy we are merely support for this war and barely feel the effects of it.

As for manning, I am truly upset by what I have seen. My ship was definately undermanned in theatre (God save us if we took mass casualties), but I see idle Boots' in my school house waiting months to class up for "A" school, pissing away their morale by waxing the same decks every day. I do not have a good measure of confidence in "Big Navy" when it comes to such matters as a result, and this discussion has not helped me in that regard.

 

[voodooqueen]

The Beatles and the Second Coming?
I think the Beatles would have offered Jesus their autograph

I think Clinton will turn out to be Obama's problem. She will bring Bill along as a baggage. Bill still needs to be reminded that he is no longer the President and has no position in government. Beating her during the election is one thing, controlling here when she has her own foreign policy agenda is another thing.

I think Hillary has a mind of her own; she graduated at the top of her class anyway. I doubt that Bill will make her sleep on the couch if she disagrees with his foreign policy.

 

[zoomie08]

In related news, Obama's Air Force is seeking to recall 1600 rated retirees.

Source?

This could be interesting.

 

[Single Seat]

And how the fvck is sending shitbags to a community with retention problems supposed to fix the problem?

Who the fuck are you "SWO In training"?!?!? You call guys that attrite from flight training shit bags? Are you fucking kidding me? You stare at gauge, sit on the bridge, and get a nose bleed at anything over 30 knots, and talk down to guys because they have a hard time LEARNING TO FLY?!?! Or maybe realize they'll never be comfortable enough flying to not be a safety concern, and are man enough to swallow their pride and call uncle. Douche nozzles like you give SWO's your bad reputation.

Let me ask you this... how many people have ever flunked out of SWO land and gone aviation? Prick.

The bias is also based on my own personal experience with flight school attrites...both I met failed out due to laziness, which they both admit.
On top of that, they're the type of JO that MAKES work for the others and yes, they're failing miserably by your definition. They need "special" attention which also slows the progress of quals for competent JOs.

There you go... you've met TWO. Maybe reconsider your criteria. I've met TWO (well three now) SWO's I thought were asshats, I don't hold it against the rest of them.

 

[Bevo16]

Source?

This could be interesting.

I don't doubt it. Just this weekend I came across a 62 year old active duty Air Force Captain (yes, that's right, O-3) who was retired and got recalled. It's a good deal for him, he gets to re-base his retirement check.

I can't post a URL for what my own Mk-1 Mod-0 eyes and ears took in, you just have to trust me.

 

[Uncle Fester]

There were quite a few recalled Army retirees instructing at NIACT Ft Jackson when I went through. Former Drill Sergeants, some Medics teaching BCLS, etc. Most said it was kind of startling to get the recall notice, but it wasn't bad duty and they were getting paid well.

One recalled Major who could just barely squeeze into his ACU's began a lecture, "Some of you may have noticed my uniform shrinking in the gut area. Well, my last PFT was eight years ago and until two months ago, I was eating on expense accounts. So you can all kiss my high-cholesterol ass."

 

[Slammer2]

...One recalled Major who could just barely squeeze into his ACU's began a lecture, "Some of you may have noticed my uniform shrinking in the gut area. Well, my last PFT was eight years ago and until two months ago, I was eating on expense accounts. So you can all kiss my high-cholesterol ass."

Maybe I'm out of my lane here, but that would just unmotivate the hell out of me to follow someone like that. I'm sure he meant it in good humor but the end of that would make me wonder. I would much more be respectful of a guy who says something like "Hey gentlemen, I realize i'm fat looking, but I just got back into the uniform. Looking forward to working it back down" or something to that effect. Instead of "I know I'm fat, fuck you"

Or maybe I just read that the wrong way. Didnt mean anything by it either way. Just an observation. Or maybe I'm still too young and not fat and all that....