Question About Getting Flying Time

[FLY_USMC]

Since I've been in the military, I've met guys with anywhere from 3K+ hours all the way down to the IFS 25, and dang near everywher in between. One of them told me this, and I will relay it to you. "Typicaly entry-level post-flight instructing jobs that civilians get will have them flying close to, if not in excess of 1000 hours a year. Do this for a little while, and you have more flying time than a 20 year military 0-6 does. It's quite common these days, and you shouldn't be surprised to hear that a young kid has that many hours already."

 

[Gatordev]

Yeah, I guess I can see that happening, although how they stay w/ it that long is beyond me. And let's not forget the obligatory "2000 hours on the civilian side does not equal 2000 hours of military flying" statement.

Man, I still can't make my back and ass stop flinching from the idea of 2500 hours in a 152.

 

[phrogpilot73]

This weekend, I talked to a friend of my wifes about what squadron life was like. He's applying for OCS as a pilot, and he's a regional airline pilot. He's already got 3500 hours, Commercial, Multi and type certificate in CRJ. He's fed up with the life in the regionals... I'm sure he'll do fine in flight school...

 

[FLY_USMC]

Be sure next time you see him to tell him his experience isn't going to help him in flight school.

 

[narfmasta]

This weekend, I talked to a friend of my wifes about what squadron life was like. He's applying for OCS as a pilot, and he's a regional airline pilot. He's already got 3500 hours, Commercial, Multi and type certificate in CRJ. He's fed up with the life in the regionals... I'm sure he'll do fine in flight school...

and see that's what I'm getting at. there are people like this that I'll be competing with... how the hell am I supposed to compete with that with absolutely ZERO hours?

 

[Kickflip89]

and see that's what I'm getting at. there are people like this that I'll be competing with... how the hell am I supposed to compete with that with absolutely ZERO hours?

Work hard.

You're getting graded on your performance just like they are. If you're worried about being competitive just to get an air contract...plenty of people get selected with no flight experience, so don't sweat it too much.

 

[zippy]

and see that's what I'm getting at. there are people like this that I'll be competing with... how the hell am I supposed to compete with that with absolutely ZERO hours?

Believe it or not, a lot of it boils down to natural ability. I have friends who w/25 hrs of IFS had NSS as good as or better then studs with hundreds of hours. Do a search on NSS and you will realize that w/ the Navy program you compete against a score(based on the people who went before you) and not each other for the most part.

If you are interested in flying on your own go do it. If you enjoy it, then keep doing it. Don't worry about 25hrs the Marine Corps would pay for you to do and how much that is going to save you. Over a lifetime it probably wont make much of a difference time and cost wise anyways.

 

[narfmasta]

Work hard.

You're getting graded on your performance just like they are. If you're worried about being competitive just to get an air contract...plenty of people get selected with no flight experience, so don't sweat it too much.

I'm not talking about an air contract. I'm talking about once you get out to flight school. I would like to try my hardest to be at the top of my class (of course) so I am just wondering if getting flight time early will help because I have heard it has from former pilots.

Believe it or not, a lot of it boils down to natural ability. I have friends who w/25 hrs of IFS had NSS as good as or better then studs with hundreds of hours. Do a search on NSS and you will realize that w/ the Navy program you compete against a score(based on the people who went before you) and not each other for the most part.

If you are interested in flying on your own go do it. If you enjoy it, then keep doing it. Don't worry about 25hrs the Marine Corps would pay for you to do and how much that is going to save you. Over a lifetime it probably wont make much of a difference time and cost wise anyways.

I have heard the natural ability thing too. Some people have "it" and some don't. I have "flown" many times when I was younger but never in a student/instructor setting. If I decide to start flying on my own, it's all paid for so saving money is not an issue to me. I just don't want to get hours on my own and then not learn things that guys who flew their initial time with the Marines.

 

[zippy]

I'm not talking about an air contract. I'm talking about once you get out to flight school. I would like to try my hardest to be at the top of my class (of course) so I am just wondering if getting flight time early will help because I have heard it has from former pilots.



I have heard the natural ability thing too. Some people have "it" and some don't. I have "flown" many times when I was younger but never in a student/instructor setting. If I decide to start flying on my own, it's all paid for so saving money is not an issue to me. I just don't want to get hours on my own and then not learn things that guys who flew their initial time with the Marines.

IFS is Introductory Flight Screening, taught by civilian flight schools. if you go through a part whatever PPL sylabus then you will def get the same exposure then you buddies, more actually because they only do 25hrs, who did IFS. If money is not an object then personally I would start flying earlier.

 

[Heloanjin]

and see that's what I'm getting at. there are people like this that I'll be competing with... how the hell am I supposed to compete with that with absolutely ZERO hours?

You need to keep in mind that 95% or more of flight students show up with only IFS. Almost all of those that have more than IFS don't have enough time to make a difference in how they perform against those with just IFS. The stories of former regional pilots or aerobatic instructors are extremely rare.

Now, there is data that shows students with PPL or more fail at a much lower rate than anyone else. The question is, did they succeed because they had the flight background or did they succeed because they love to fly and were willing to spend a lot of money out of pocket just to do it?

Bottom line, if you want to fly on your own because you think it will be fun and it is something you want to do for your own self satisfaction, then by all means, have fun. But if you are thinking about flying to get some kind of edge in flight school, then you are just wasting your money.

 

[larbear]

and see that's what I'm getting at. there are people like this that I'll be competing with... how the hell am I supposed to compete with that with absolutely ZERO hours?

You won't have ZERO hours if you do IFS. You'll have almost exactly the same hours as most of your peers. Besides, the difference between someone with 25 hours in a Cessna and one with 150 or 200 hours is probably nil. Well the difference is nil aside from the initial arrogance of the guy with 150 hours. They are both clueless about military (even TRACOM) flying.

In primary those high time civilian guys sometimes seemed to have an easier go. In jet "advanced" (I know, T-45 Digital Total System) things are much more even. Natural ability and effort are the only things that appear to matter at this stage. Keep in mind the fact that even high time civilian pilots often don't have much exposure to even the most basic elements of Naval flying. Civilians don't generally practice day/night/IMC formation, weapons, carrier landings, etc. I was a CFI/AI before I joined and while it might have helped in primary, it was only part of my backup plan in case the military rejected me. I wouldn't get all that civilian training just for the purpose of being more competetive in flight school. There's a good chance you'd be wasting your money.

 

[HAL Pilot]

and see that's what I'm getting at. there are people like this that I'll be competing with... how the hell am I supposed to compete with that with absolutely ZERO hours?

If you're talking about competing as in getting accepted to be a SNA, it's not that big of a deal. The board looks at the total application and the applicant as a whole. Having previous flight experience is not really that important for the average applicant. It will help someone who's overall application is weak. If you are

Zero flight hours is probably the norm. Having a 1000+ hours is the exception. Military flight training is designed around starting at zero.

 

[MasterBates]

Example-

I had ~1100 hours when I checked into primary.. 1050 or so helo hours, and about 50-60 in BugSmashers.. This was pre-IFS.

While I did have the SA for radio calls and the like, the T-34 still kicked my ass for a couple flights. I did better than my peers, but not that much.

If you enjoy flying, and have the means, go fly. Don't do it because you think it gaurantees Jets/Props/MV-22/Helos. It does not.

 

[larbear]

You need to keep in mind that 95% or more of flight students show up with only IFS. Almost all of those that have more than IFS don't have enough time to make a difference in how they perform against those with just IFS. The stories of former regional pilots or aerobatic instructors are extremely rare.

Now, there is data that shows students with PPL or more fail at a much lower rate than anyone else. The question is, did they succeed because they had the flight background or did they succeed because they love to fly and were willing to spend a lot of money out of pocket just to do it?

Bottom line, if you want to fly on your own because you think it will be fun and it is something you want to do for your own self satisfaction, then by all means, have fun. But if you are thinking about flying to get some kind of edge in flight school, then you are just wasting your money.

How did you paraphrase my post and say exactly what I was trying to say before I even made my post? Coincidence?

 

[ArkhamAsylum]

Civilian instrument training will probably help you out in primary more than anything else, because most of those concepts are fairly universal, and military pilots must adhere to the FAR/AIM just like their civvie counterparts. This has limitations, though, as the instrumentation (aside from the basic VOR/DME stuff) will likely be a bit different.
Also remember that most of your flight school grades are based on knowledge of emergency procedures, normal flight procedures, course rules, systems and aerodynamics knowledge, and general headwork. Much of this is aircraft-specific, so being a checklist-rockstar in a Cessna 172 won't prepare you for preflighting and starting a T-34.
Since I'm like you and had only IFS going into Primary (I'm in Advanced now), I'll tell you that the only takeaways from IFS that helped me were knowing the importance of understanding the aircraft systems, understanding the importancs of pubs like the FAR/AIM, and why trimming the airplane is better than not trimming it. I suspect that most guys going in with 200 hours or less will have similar stories.