The 4th Amendment has NOTHING to do with race or "getting shot".
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Raising Arizona ... Guns, Illegals ... what next???
- Thread starter A4sForever
- Start date
The 4th Amendment has NOTHING to do with race or "getting shot".
Sheriff Joe is rounding them up. 150+ according to the news. Tent City is about to get a little crowded.
Isn't it crazy how when a local PD investigates a federal crime, they work with the Federal authorities to prosecute it?
Clux4
Banned
Right on. For Arizona politics, this bill is an attempt to save face and re-energize the base. Though it might be immediate victory for local republicans, it will ultimately end in long term undesired results on the national scene for the party. It is unfortunate but yet the reality that the Hispanic population in this country see immigration reform as being 'anti-immigrants'. The last administration did not touch immigration reform for obvious reasons. Maybe Republicans should be reminded of the 1960 presidential election. Martin Luther King Sr. prior to this election was reported to have voted republican. He endorsed Kennedy and the rest is history. If they lose the Hispanic vote, they have no chance in 2012. Aren't they the largest minority in the country?
In fairness, the President and the House Majority Leader had no intentions of addressing immigration this year. They are only re-adjusting because Arizona has passed a law they view is within the purview of the Federal Government.
Actually, SB 1070 IS a state law!!! That was the whole point. Give local LE the tools to help do the job the FEDs have failed at.
I am sorry, but when I followed the link about Chief Harris concerns I couldn't find a single quote let along a cogent argument. Maybe I wasn't looking well enough or the link is broken, either way, I know his concerns as they are reported well in AZ. His concerns are those of an administrator that is reflecting the views of his bosses, the mayor and city manager. Near as I can tell all, but one, of AZ sheriff’s, which are elected, approve of this law. All of the police officer associations and unions approve of this law. Chief Harris is a damn fine Chief of Police. I believe his concerns are overblown.
As an update, the new law has already been amended by the legislature. It tightens things up even more where concern about racial profiling has been loudest and clears up some unintentional vagueness.
SB 1070: NOW: safe neighborhoods; immigration; law enforcement
• Changes “lawful contact” to “lawful stop, detention or arrest.”
• Stipulates that a lawful stop, detention or arrest must be in the enforcement of any other law or ordinance of a county, city or town or this state.
• Stipulates that a reasonable attempt must be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of a person, except if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation when reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien and is unlawfully present in the U.S.
• Removes “solely” from the provision relating the prohibition on discriminatory enforcement.
• Stipulates that for the Enforcement of Immigration Law, Unlawfully Picking up Passengers for Work and Unlawfully Transporting or Harboring Unlawful Aliens the immigration status may be determined by:Ø A law enforcement officer who is authorized by the federal government to verify or ascertain an alien’s immigration status.
Ø ICE or CBP pursuant to 8 U.S.C. § 1373(c).
• Specifies that 8 U.S.C § 1373 and 8 U.S.C § 1644 are included in the federal immigration laws relating to challenges regarding policies adopted or implemented by an entity.
• Stipulates that for the enforcement of Willful Failure to Complete or Carry an Alien Registration Document, Unlawfully Picking up Passengers for Work and Unlawfully Transporting or Harboring Unlawful Aliens a law enforcement official or agency cannot consider race, color or national origin when implementing these provisions, except as permitted by the U.S. or Arizona Constitution.
• Eliminates certain violations of Willful Failure to Complete or Carry an Alien Registration Document that were class 3 and class 4 felonies.
• Limits fines for first time violators of Willful Failure to Complete or Carry an Alien Registration Document to $100.
• Prohibits the courts from sentencing first time violators of Willful Failure to Complete or Carry a Alien Registration Document to more than 20 days in jail.
• Prohibits the courts from sentencing second or subsequent violators of Willful Failure to Complete or Carry an Alien Registration Document to more than 30 days in jail.
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/summary/h.hb2162_ccmemo.doc.htmn
Do these changes give any of you critics a warm fuzzy yet?
You are not a legal scholar, lawyer, or, apparently, interested in a little research to inform a lively factual debate. You would rather just shoot your mouth off. Let me help you. The Fourth Amendment refers, in part, to “seizures”. Like most people I suppose you think that refers to evidence, like finding dope in a car, or seizing computer data without a warrant. It also refers to the seizing of one’s person, as in an arrest, and in the extreme, “seizing” one’s life. The fourth amendment is very often the basis of law suits brought by the real and imagined victims of a police shooting. I know, I have sat in courtrooms and watched the trial of cases brought under the fourth amendment in police shootings.
magnetfreezer
Well-Known Member
Yes, they can. Reference ACORN, provisional ballots, and massive opposition whenever the idea of requiring ID to vote comes up.
Immigration is still a part of federal law and law enforcement, the state law is just an add-on. As far as the feds failing and the state helping out, I doubt it will help much at all with the illegal immigration problem, part of the practical part I am concerned about.
Seriously? Illegal immigrants can't vote, a tiny handful of instances of the law being being broken doesn't mean they can vote all of a sudden.
I just don't get what the whole F-ing debate is about. Being here illegally is well, still illegal. Amnesty is bullshit and any politician who wants to grant amnesty can shove it up his/her ass. The AZ law is simple and all this liberal debate over it is no more than bitching and drum beating about harassment.
Guess what, this law is absolutely nothing new. It really means nothing. It's just AZ giving the FEDs a political shove and the Dems in Washington want something 'right-wing' to bitch about. It changes nothing. The law clearly states that you cannot harass (ask for ID/Green Card) unless the Officer is enforcing another law/ordinance. Guess what...they can ask you for your ID/Green Card anyways if you break the law. Illegal Alien or not. I've been asked for my License/Registration every time I've been pulled over or had any sort of incident with the police for the last 25 years. If I had been pulled over with no license or proof of my existence and legal right to be here then they probably would have thrown me in the back of a cop car too until they could figure out who I am.
It's hard to believe that some half-assed, neutered immigration law like this can get so many Americans' panties in a twist. If this AZ law is Washington's version of harassment and bad legislation then somebody up there needs to go down to South Tejas and get a serious gut check before they start talking about writing any immigration reform bill. The same thing applies to financial reform. It's funny how the word reform = political posturing, point winning, and bullshit these days. How's about doing something that's actually going to make a difference and benefit someone?
Guess what, this law is absolutely nothing new. It really means nothing. It's just AZ giving the FEDs a political shove and the Dems in Washington want something 'right-wing' to bitch about. It changes nothing. The law clearly states that you cannot harass (ask for ID/Green Card) unless the Officer is enforcing another law/ordinance. Guess what...they can ask you for your ID/Green Card anyways if you break the law. Illegal Alien or not. I've been asked for my License/Registration every time I've been pulled over or had any sort of incident with the police for the last 25 years. If I had been pulled over with no license or proof of my existence and legal right to be here then they probably would have thrown me in the back of a cop car too until they could figure out who I am.
It's hard to believe that some half-assed, neutered immigration law like this can get so many Americans' panties in a twist. If this AZ law is Washington's version of harassment and bad legislation then somebody up there needs to go down to South Tejas and get a serious gut check before they start talking about writing any immigration reform bill. The same thing applies to financial reform. It's funny how the word reform = political posturing, point winning, and bullshit these days. How's about doing something that's actually going to make a difference and benefit someone?
Citizenship cards for all! Or put US Citizen on the driver's license.
"TINY", my definition must vary from yours. Besides, its not the illegal votes that are at stake here. Its pandering to everyone else, who can legally vote, and has no concern for legitimate immigration reform: essentially the better part of the DNC, and their donors.
No I haven't because I had my LICENSE. That's a moot point. The AZ law states that a driver's license is a valid form of Identification since you have to be here legally to get one in the first place. Besides, if you are here legally then you should have a green card/SSC/Driver's license on you anyways. I don't think I've left the house without a valid ID since I was about 9 years old and if I did and got busted by the cops for something then it's my fault and I'll deal with the consequences. Let's think like adults here and quit pandering to the illegals 'cause you're afraid somebody's feelings might get hurt.
I mean seriously, what kind of person drives/walks around with absolutely no ID on them. Especially when you're 10 miles from the freakin border.
It's funny to me how the same people that want the government to control their healthcare, don't want to be asked for a valid ID these days. So let me get this straight, it's ok for your local Govt to know about your medical problems but it's NOT ok for them to be able to verify your citizenship within reasonable expectation?
What about the people who don't want the government to control their healthcare or to probe them for identification at the government's leisure? Those crazy philosophically-consistent kooks...