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Randy Cunningham article....not flattering

bunk22

bunk22

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http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/cunningham/20060115-9999-lz1n15legend.html

Those who knew him or served during this time might find this article interesting (A4's). I will say this, the Navy still isn't very good at putting good leaders into CO/XO billets. At least in my community, I would say 75% of the skippers simply fell into good timing (FITREPS, selection, etc) with the other 25% actually having good leadership qualities and abilities. I've also seen many more aviators with the ability to lead get passed over.
 
Well, I knew we'd see more of Cunningham's "Bad Side" come to light after he pleaded guilty...

some of it isn't too surprising though, I read Wilcox's book refreneced in the Article...
What do you expect from a guy who tells his C.O. "You're Fvcked up!"???
 
bunk22 said:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/cunningham/20060115-9999-lz1n15legend.html

Those who knew him or served during this time might find this article interesting (A4's). I will say this, the Navy still isn't very good at putting good leaders into CO/XO billets. At least in my community, I would say 75% of the skippers simply fell into good timing (FITREPS, selection, etc) with the other 25% actually having good leadership qualities and abilities. I've also seen many more aviators with the ability to lead get passed over.
Click to expand...

I know Duke and met him when he was a LCDR and we were both assigned to Pentagon before I went to TBS (there was ultra long wait for aviators to go to TBS and flight school back then). He always took time to answer my questions and was my invited guest for the TBS Dining Out. His Navy Cross got a lot of attention even from the "03" crowd. Duke carried himself well. He inspired many Marines and aspiring Naval Aviators/NFOs as well. He would open his house to us on Sunday nights for soup and salad dinners. This wasn't about ego. He gave up family time to listen to our questions and nudge us in the right direction (before there was AW, you had to approach people directly). At VT-86, I took my cross country to visit him when he was a dept head in VF-154 and sat in a CQ lecture he gave. I met other JOs then who served with me later in Desert Shield/Storm. We were all in an admin in Turkey when Duke got elected to Congress in 1990 and that sparked an interesting discussion. The rumors talked about in the article came to the surface, but that came from folks who heard them 2nd or 3rd or 4th hand. One of our pilots was in VF-154 and said he learned more about flying and fighting the Phantom from Duke than anyone else. There was a lingering attitude at Miramar from Viet Nam that paperwork could wait and it was all about flying the best aircraft you could. I suppose Duke took that to an extreme.

Duke was all about flying and devoting every minute to studying NATOPS, the threat, switchology, whatever. As the article attests, he didn't have much time for paperwork that didn't help him in the air. So what do you do with a Navy Cross winner and your only ace (pilot, that is). You make him an Adversary Skipper to teach the whole community how to fight.

The article talked to the right folks. They don't bear grudges at all towards the "Duke". I've been in Duke's office with Ruff (cofounder of Top Gun as LT and later CO of "Gun" school), and bumped into him on Capitol Hill on more than a few occasions. I also know "Mugs" McKoewn (2 kills in a single engagement over the MiG's homebase at Kep), "Fingers" Ensch (in the backseat with Mugs when he departed his Phantom to avoid a bunch of MiG-17s and then bagged one), "Cannonball" Crenshaw and a bunch of VF-96 guys who flew with Duke. Nobody discounts his flying skill or fact he got 3 that day. Plenty of other hot sticks were airborne, but only Randy got 3.

"Pappy" Boyington was the leading Marine Ace from WWII (at least from his claims, especially those from his brief tenure as a Flying Tiger in the AVG and his last 2 before he was shot down) that may not hold up to scrutiny making Joe Foss the true leader). He once said, "Show me a hero, I'll prove he's a bum". Pappy's problems came from competiveness and dependancy on alcohol, but he fell from grace. Now it is Duke's turn to bear the shame of his actions. He wasn't the first and probably won't be the last.

Sad that this type of bad news isn't unusual on Capitol Hill, but Duke was one of us ----
 
I would say that's a good little write up Hey Joe. I met Cunningham a few times, the first time at a little air show in Chino. I was simply walking through the crowd and ran into him. We talked for about 20 minutes. This was in 88, I think right after he retired. Seemed nice enough. Spoke with him again at a Top Gun change of command in 93. He stopped by as a guest and Congressman. You always picture a idol, hero, whatever to be this near perfect human being when in reality, he or she is a human being.......often with flaws.
 
How dare they bash Tom Cruise's character in TOP Gun. During the movie he only drank one beer and dated one woman, how crazy is that, geez. Oh yeah this thread is about Randy "Duke" Cunningham, bad, bad, bad. However, his former XO complains about doing all the sqaudron's paperwork, is that what XO's do in all sqaudron's? And I always thought Check Six was short for watch your a$$ a fellow "buddy" will stab anyone unsupecting sole in the back near FITREP time. I'm kidding.
 
saltpeter said:
How dare they bash Tom Cruise's character in TOP Gun. During the movie he only drank one beer and dated one woman, how crazy is that, geez. Oh yeah this thread is about Randy "Duke" Cunningham, bad, bad, bad. However, his former XO complains about doing all the sqaudron's paperwork, is that what XO's do in all sqaudron's? And I always thought Check Six was short for watch your a$$ a fellow "buddy" will stab anyone unsupecting sole in the back near FITREP time. I'm kidding.
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Christ... do you even read your posts before hitting submit? For someone whose primary language is English, you sure do suck at it.
 
Interesting perspectives on "Duke" Cunningham and his career.

He was my first skipper in the Navy while I was stashed in VF-126 prior to flight school and I distinctly remember the talk around the RR when Duke's career came up one day. Believe the bottom line on his career was aptly stated by one of his senior Dept Heads as: "Great Stick, Lousy Officer". Pretty powerful statement for an ensign to hear and one I have not forgotten to this day.

Duke has lived his life squarely "on the edge" and his current chapter in life is no different.

My two cents.....
 
Blutonski816 said:
What do you expect from a guy who tells his C.O. "You're Fvcked up!"???
Click to expand...

Depending on the circumstance and the method, great things, sometimes teh emperor needs to be told he's naked.
Not saying this is teh case but quite a generalization there.
 
When you're out in politics, you're outlawed....just like your past and/or previous life.

I feel sorry for "Duke". He shouldn't have gotten through this, he deserves better.

Just my $0.02
 
Walking long enough around to know that everybody has his price. Even Duke, but also the rest of us. That's why we are called 'humans'.

Rich or poor, everybody has his/her price.
 
What was he thinking?

nkawtg said:
Walking long enough around to know that everybody has his price. Even Duke, but also the rest of us. That's why we are called 'humans'.

Rich or poor, everybody has his/her price.
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I can't help but say "What was he thinking?" No house sale goes unnoticed nor does a Rolls-Royce in the driveway. Whenever a house sells in my neighborhood, it is the topic du jour for weeks as everyone wants to know what the market is doing...trying to work a payoff that way was like putting up a neon sign and then buying a Rolls Royce????? Maybe in Hollywood, but public servants need to be a little circumspect about their choice of autos. All seems to point to the ego getting the best of him.

But there was another Duke that did a lot for the Navy Fighter Community. Looks like he's heading for some contemplation time at the big house. Can't see that they'll let him off without doing some time even though he agreed to cooperate and even wear a wire.
 
Everybody got his price

With that I mean ofcourse it depends from person to person what the unproper act actually is. Point is that you deviate from what your office, rank, profession, community is expecting from you.

For instance our Prince of the Netherlands, husband of our previous Queen, Prince Bernhard. Let me tell you what kind of guy that was;

From German heritage he fought the Germans as a Strike/Bomber Pilot during WW II. The queen has personally ordered that her son in law was not allowed to take active action during the raids to pave the ways for Normandie (D-Day). Under a false callsign he took part in numerous war-flights over war-time France. You can imagine what the Germans could have done with him in their propaganda-machine when he got captured alive in Nazi occupied territory. After the war he was present with the German Capitulation in Café “de Wereld” and signed on behalf of the Dutch royalty, and although he spoke German fluently he talked to them in English. He was an inspirator for major generations afterwards to enter aviation. That man is a Hero with a capitol “H”, and every aviator worshipped this guy and his attitude. He also pleaded whole his lifetime, till he died last year, for recognition of the role that the Polish Paratroopers played in retrieving British and American Paratroopers during operation ‘Market Garden’ near Arnhem in ’44 when things went wrong for them. He made it a death-wish by pronouncing that again the night before he passed away. The Polish units are getting their honors and medals after 60 years from the Dutch Government. He also stood up for ‘the Green beret’ the clolour of the berets that the Dutch commando’s wear. It’s a unique colour for the ‘commando’s’ since WWII and last year the Army brass decided that every soldier could wear that clolour and it was made the new standard colour for all Army units. On a military parade honoring the fallen comrades, the Prince was wearing the Green Commando Beret, making a statement that no one ever could made. The colour of the Green Berets remained after that only for real the Elite….


In the 70s the Lockheed F-104 Starfighter was one of the airplanes that the RNLAF had in sight for adding to the Fighter inventory. The Prince accepted $1 miljon in bribes from the Lockheed factory and donated this $1 miljon to the World Wildlife Fund (his second goal in life besides Aviation). Congress found out and because of his Royal Immunity the only thing the Left Winged Parliament could do was take his uniform, medals and Military rank.

I guess you get the point that everybody got his price, whether you’re rich or poor, whether you’re from the street or a Royalty. It depends of the nature of the ‘indecent proposal’ and ofcourse your own conscience and finally the convidence (in yourself) that you can get away with it….
 

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skidkid said:
Depending on the circumstance and the method, great things, sometimes teh emperor needs to be told he's naked.
Not saying this is teh case but quite a generalization there.
Click to expand...

I will say you're right... I didn't put it into context...
just giving an example of Cunninham's less than tactful approach to certain situations...

Here's an exerpt from Wilcox's book about the above statement...

[Cunningham] wasn't much of a diplomat. Once, when a previous skipper insisted that the squadron carry only wingtanks in combat, Cunningham marched in ready to do battle.
"The airplane doesn't perform as well [with wingtanks]," he told his skipper. And the skipper's excuse was, 'well we get a thousand pounds more fuel by usingg wing tanks instead of centerline.' He added,'We're not going to use centerline because our sister squadron is using centerline....' "To me that was ludicrous. I told him he was fvcked up. I went to him and proved it.... I showed him even in Korea when they blew off their wingtanks [if both didn't release] you'd have a heavy wing plus induced drag. The actual usable fuel you got was only a couple hundred pounds....
"I was a maverick and a purist." But he admits, "That was wrong.... You don't walk up to a skipper and tell him he's fvcked up."
 
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