No arguments here and I agree, I just felt a review of the numbers would be interesting. I absolutely agree with the importance of India.
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Road to 350: What Does the US Navy Do Anyway?
- Thread starter Randy Daytona
- Start date
They started out that way, as @number9 points out below, both with the subs themselves and the first US-supplied combat system (that went through multiple company mergers/sales and design changes). A big part of the problem was the subs were much bigger than the Swedes had ever designed before and operated in a much different environment than the Baltic, from salinity to temperature.
The Aussies apparently worked the kinks out long ago and the Collins are now excellent subs that the Aussies love. I worked with an Aussie sonar tech Warrant Officer (Master Chief) last year and he was more than happy to talk subs, waxing poetically about the Collins in typical colorful Aussie style as well as mentioning not really trusting the 'fuckin bloody frogs' when I asked him about their replacements.
They weren't exploring the idea, they selected the French in 2016 to build 12 conventionally-powered versions of the Barracuda SSN's for $50 billion Australian, a cost had already risen to ~$80 billion by this year (presumably Aussie $). Coupled with serious delays and even some embarrassing leaks the contract was in trouble enough that the Aussies refused to sign the next phase of the contract earlier this year.
It was got so bad that the Australian Prime Minister met with the French President about it in June and told him that if the French didn't have their shit together by September the deal might get canx'd. Quelle surprise, the contract was sunk.
While a few Aussies have advocated in the past for nuke-powered subs before now it wasn't being pursued by the government as they've historically been wary of nuclear power, they banned it in 1983, though not as nuke adverse as their Kiwi neighbors. Chinese government actions and behavior have dramatically altered the calculus for the Aussies in just the past 2-3 years to the point where the political leadership is willing to acquire not only more 'strategic' nuclear-powered submarines but also an even closer alliance to the United States, and public sentiment seems to back them on both.
The latest 'Block' also happens to cost about 1/3rd more than the Astute-class and might be a bit bigger than the Aussies want. The Aussies will also want considerable technology transfer and share in the construction and that might help the Brits more than it would us, given their smaller industrial base for building nuke subs.
After the Astute-class is done building, only 2 more to go, they will likely have a pause of a few years before they build a new class of SSN/SSBN's while we are just going to keep cranking 'em out, both Virginia's and now the Columbia-class SSBN's too. That pause might also give the Brits more capacity to start building boats for the Aussies as they get up to speed building them on their own and helping the Brits to maintain a more robust expertise than they would otherwise with a significant pause. I would not be surprised if that is a big reason the Brits are part of the pact.
Lastly, I think it is pretty damn rich the French are getting their panties in a twist over the cancelled deal. After all the shady shit they've pulled with arms deals for decades they don't have much of a leg to stand on to start complaining about losing out on this one.
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Guess it depends on the perspective, but AUS has been a close ally and FVEY member for a long time. I think they're realizing they need to step it up to counterbalance China and SSNs are a critical capability to project power. I can't see any other party in the area we'd be willing to transfer this type of sensitive technology to (also I don't think SSNs would fly in Japan or South Korea)
Seems rather unusual.
Furious Over Sub Deal, France Recalls Ambassadors to U.S. and Australia
It is the first time in the long history of the French-U.S. alliance that a top diplomat has been recalled, illustrating the depth of France’s anger.
France recalls its ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia to protest Biden’s submarine deal.
exNavyOffRec
Well-Known Member
It seems like they feel like they have been wronged and instead of fighting it they are just going to throw up the white flag and give up.Seems rather unusual.
Furious Over Sub Deal, France Recalls Ambassadors to U.S. and Australia
It is the first time in the long history of the French-U.S. alliance that a top diplomat has been recalled, illustrating the depth of France’s anger.www.nytimes.com
France recalls its ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia to protest Biden’s submarine deal.
standard.
Fuck! I was like a quarter click behind you!
FIFA. I don't know why the French are upset with the US. It's the Australians who cancelled their contract.
Good article from James Holmes at “1945”. Reports suggest the US may station nuclear submarines at the RAN’s base outside of Perth.
www.realcleardefense.com
Why Nuclear Submarines for Australia Make Perfect Sense
Huzzah! The news broke this week that Australia, Great Britain, and the United States have forged a new alliance dubbed AUKUS, for Australia-U.K.-U.S. Among other things, the alliance will help the Ro
Speaking of which, I find it so completely odd and incomprehensible that India and China regularly participate in melee combat on treacherous ledges at >10,000’ MSL. And because their cricket bats and nail boards aren’t quite deadly enough, they have to string them with barbed wire and other makeshift implements. Like, wtf people? If you are in the business of killing the enemy, just kill them. If that was me I would just position a couple snipers in camo snowsuits with a semi-auto .300 blackout or 7.62, drum mags, and suppressors, and just have them take potshots at idiots with baseball bats. The bodies are falling thousands of feet into snow packed crevices. No one’s gonna see the bullet entry wounds - and if they do, who f’n cares, it’s warfare.
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As has already been noted both South Korea and Taiwan have limited power projection capabilities, thought South Korea is working on that but is largely focused on their advisory to the north for some odd reason
Speaking of submarines, the Asia-Pacific region and South Korea, this happened earlier in the week:
It is a first for a non-nuclear armed country and for a country that didn't have submarines until 1993, pretty impressive.