Harrier Dude
Living the dream
Anybody know anybody who flies for ATSI? Just curious about what it's like, etc.
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Scooters Forever (A-4 Skyhawk Tribute Thread)
- Thread starter ea6bflyr
- Start date
I met two of the plankowners when they were trying to get US Skyhawks back in mid nineties. Both were former Blue Angels and fighter pilots. They ended up getting Israeli Skyhawks and want the New Zealand ones to fly them (even if article says they aren't flyable, with right amount of care and attention, they'll be airworthy).
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
I guess I'm trying to figure out if it's worth looking into from an employment perspective. It sounds like a good gig, but that isn't always the case. Plus they may have some crazy requirements (along the lines of what "the other skeeterman" wanted for his company) that I can't meet.
Johnny Rutherford does (or did) fly for them. Last I heard though, they were having a hard time making it financially, and were careening toward bankruptcy.
The guys I knew seem to be missing from the masthead. If you're looking to fly tactical aircraft, there's also ATAC that is operating Kfir, Draken and Hunter aircraft.
JT Eagle
Registered User
ATSI vs TAS
A little confusion here: ATSI, based at Williams Gateway Airport in Phoenix, was started by Hoss Pearson (former BA Skipper etc) amongst others. He parted company with them some time ago and later set up Tactical Air Services (TAS), of which little is known except that he wants to buy the ex-RNZAF A-4Ks (and perhaps the Aermacchi MB-339CD trainers as well). This was announced about the time of Hook '05, from memory. The NZ Govt have agreed, but supposedly, the State Department just haven't gotten around to digging out the paperwork and signing their part of it. The jets have APG-65 radar and other (relatively) modern kit in them, and so State needs to sign off on sales to third countries/parties etc. Now either it is some sort of snub over the anti-nuclear laws in NZ and the fallout from that about 20 years ago, and thus everyone (NZ govt seems to be the only source, as State never seems to have made a statement) are lying, or State really are as incompetent and empire-building as I've found them.
ATSI lost the contract to give advanced training to the UAE pilots, and had some other problems and apparently only fly a few of their A-4Ns/TA-4Js at the moment, mainly to keep them serviceable. They sold two Ns to BAE Systems in May and those are now towing targets and doing GCI stuff in Germany. Some other company (either Lockheed Martin or a partner) seems to have won the UAE gig and plans to base 15 F-5As and Bs at Alliance Fort Worth, TX some time soon. Anyone know the origin of these jets? Are they ex-Canadian?
ATAC were acquiring a TA-4 from another source and were supposedly also getting some A-4Cs/Ls from a group that were in desert storage next to D-M. The problem there is the different engine (J65 vs J52), but that's another story. They do fly Kfirs, Hunters and L-39s (the latter are sub-contracted, I think) but may have retired their Drakens now.
Anyone know more about TAS?
JT
A little confusion here: ATSI, based at Williams Gateway Airport in Phoenix, was started by Hoss Pearson (former BA Skipper etc) amongst others. He parted company with them some time ago and later set up Tactical Air Services (TAS), of which little is known except that he wants to buy the ex-RNZAF A-4Ks (and perhaps the Aermacchi MB-339CD trainers as well). This was announced about the time of Hook '05, from memory. The NZ Govt have agreed, but supposedly, the State Department just haven't gotten around to digging out the paperwork and signing their part of it. The jets have APG-65 radar and other (relatively) modern kit in them, and so State needs to sign off on sales to third countries/parties etc. Now either it is some sort of snub over the anti-nuclear laws in NZ and the fallout from that about 20 years ago, and thus everyone (NZ govt seems to be the only source, as State never seems to have made a statement) are lying, or State really are as incompetent and empire-building as I've found them.
ATSI lost the contract to give advanced training to the UAE pilots, and had some other problems and apparently only fly a few of their A-4Ns/TA-4Js at the moment, mainly to keep them serviceable. They sold two Ns to BAE Systems in May and those are now towing targets and doing GCI stuff in Germany. Some other company (either Lockheed Martin or a partner) seems to have won the UAE gig and plans to base 15 F-5As and Bs at Alliance Fort Worth, TX some time soon. Anyone know the origin of these jets? Are they ex-Canadian?
ATAC were acquiring a TA-4 from another source and were supposedly also getting some A-4Cs/Ls from a group that were in desert storage next to D-M. The problem there is the different engine (J65 vs J52), but that's another story. They do fly Kfirs, Hunters and L-39s (the latter are sub-contracted, I think) but may have retired their Drakens now.
Anyone know more about TAS?
JT
Good info! So that's why Hoss disappeared from ATSI literature and website.
One note of correction: the Royal New Zealand Air Force A-4K is equipped with an APG-66 (derived from F-16), not an APG-65 (derived from F/A-18). The nose is rather small so APG-66 was best fit. The upgrades also included 1553 bus, glass cockpit with HUD and HOTAS; all done under Project Kahu that was begun in 1986.
APG-66 onboard!!
Nose of RNZAF A-4K
I don't personally know anyone at ATSI. I did get an all access tour a few years ago. Things have certainly changed since then, but I was reasonably impressed. They still had the UAE contract as well as some red air stuff for the Canuks, and some other smaller training contracts. The vast majority of their pilot/instructors were part time. As I recall they only had something like three full time pilots. The typical guy they looked for was not necessarily high time in the cockpit, but a high proportion of instructing to total time. They didn't have to be FWS type guys either, but folks that knew how to instruct and were very patient. The maintenance looked first rate. Every one of those planes looked better then any I saw in the Navy. Almost all the mecs were former Navy and USMC, mostly retired. Some of you might remember they lost an A-4 into the Great Salt Lake a couple years ago. They lost the pilot when the seat appeared to malfunction after ejection. Maybe that incident has contributed to their financial problems.
Joe,
I've seen Hunters flying into NAS Jax over the last couple of days and I know some grey hulls are out in the warning area. So know it makes sense.
They fly a great pattern, lower than usual. Really catches your eye as not something "normal".
Great to see them flying around for sure.
I've seen Hunters flying into NAS Jax over the last couple of days and I know some grey hulls are out in the warning area. So know it makes sense.
They fly a great pattern, lower than usual. Really catches your eye as not something "normal".
Great to see them flying around for sure.
JT Eagle
Registered User
APG-65 vs 66
You are right. I really should be ashamed of myself for getting that one wrong. The Kiwi Kahu Skyhawks have a version called APG-66(NZ) which has a cut-down antenna and extra modes for surface (ship) search. The A-4Ms that went to Argentina have APG-66 as well, which they call the ARG-1.
As for the F-5s at Alliance, there's some info in this article:
www.topix.net/content/kri/2007/12/foreign-military-pilots-could-train-at-alliance
and more, of a different sort, in this Environmental Impact Report:
media.star-telegram.com/Multimedia/News/071207airforce.pdf
JT
You are right. I really should be ashamed of myself for getting that one wrong. The Kiwi Kahu Skyhawks have a version called APG-66(NZ) which has a cut-down antenna and extra modes for surface (ship) search. The A-4Ms that went to Argentina have APG-66 as well, which they call the ARG-1.
As for the F-5s at Alliance, there's some info in this article:
www.topix.net/content/kri/2007/12/foreign-military-pilots-could-train-at-alliance
and more, of a different sort, in this Environmental Impact Report:
media.star-telegram.com/Multimedia/News/071207airforce.pdf
JT
Who did the Singaporeans get their Scooters from for the A-4SU program? I thought they were ex-Kahu birds.
Hell, let's buy them back and send them to Fallon.
Hell, let's buy them back and send them to Fallon.
JT Eagle
Registered User
A-4SUs
Singapore's A-4SUs started life as A-4Bs and Cs, many of the latter with Vietnam combat under their belts. When they became 'Super Skyhawks' they gained non-afterburning F404s, which are roughly comparable in thrust to the J52-P-408, but more efficient and reliable etc. They never got radar, but had navigation and other upgrades.
What actually happened with the F-16s that NZ never got (after Pakistan had never got them either), was that THEY went to Fallon (and Edwards), having been paid for more than once.
There should be plenty of A-4SUs in storage in Singapore since they retired the bulk of them in 2005. They still fly about 16 A-4SUs and TA-4SUs (the 'double bubble' two-seaters) at their training base in France.
JT
Singapore's A-4SUs started life as A-4Bs and Cs, many of the latter with Vietnam combat under their belts. When they became 'Super Skyhawks' they gained non-afterburning F404s, which are roughly comparable in thrust to the J52-P-408, but more efficient and reliable etc. They never got radar, but had navigation and other upgrades.
What actually happened with the F-16s that NZ never got (after Pakistan had never got them either), was that THEY went to Fallon (and Edwards), having been paid for more than once.
There should be plenty of A-4SUs in storage in Singapore since they retired the bulk of them in 2005. They still fly about 16 A-4SUs and TA-4SUs (the 'double bubble' two-seaters) at their training base in France.
JT