NEWS Seahawks Sink Houthi Boats

[JTS11]

It's been done before.

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The Nimrods were fitted with them in the Falklands War after encountering Argentine 707's doing maritime reconnaissance on 3 separate instances.

I'll raise you one. They should have carried an external load for the Pic though...

 

[robav8r]

 

[Flash]

I've been paying very close attention. You have your definitions crossed.

No I don't.

Let me be more specific. No surface combatant has more organic OTH targeting capability than a CVW. Key word being organic. It's just physics. Most players in this space have the capability to drive a kill chain to organic.

Not relevant to modern maritime warfare. And to the extent that it is, you don't necessarily need an FA-18 or F-35 to execute the back end of the kill chain developed by an E-2.

I have trouble taking you seriously when you say something like this. Inorganic OTH capability will almost always be more vulnerable than organic OTH capability for a variety of reasons from the mundane to the complex. New capabilities don't make old ones irrelevant, and the new ones certainly are not invulnerable to threats themselves.

While this is an Naval Aviation website most of the aviators here are very realistic about the capabilities and limitations of US Naval Aviation today, and many of us are also aware of the capabilities and limitations of other US weapon systems no matter the community or service. The reason I mention this is that you seem to think we are all naval aviation partisans when in fact many of us are probably more aware of what we can and can't do, and not just things that come off airplanes, than you seem to be.

 

[ChuckMK23]

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Penguin! I believe @mad dog shot a few of these in "the old days" 👍

 

[Griz882]

@Griz882 I see the laughter but genuinely have no idea what the reference to an HSM A/A kill is and if it was a joke it went over my head.

I think it was more of a timing thing…probably inappropriate lol’ing on my part.

 

[robav8r]

Penguin! I believe @mad dog shot a few of these in "the old days" 👍

I took out the very first AGM-119 detachment in HSL-48 . . .

 

[Spekkio]

Inorganic OTH capability will almost always be more vulnerable than organic OTH capability for a variety of reasons from the mundane to the complex.

Fact.

New capabilities don't make old ones irrelevant, and the new ones certainly are not invulnerable to threats themselves.

Not a fact. The risk of modern sensors and munitions to CVNs and aircraft requires a reliance on inorganic sensors. Perhaps too much so.

So yes, the solution is to rely on platforms that don't need OTHT to execute the killchain against level 1 combatants. Right now that's submarines, but probably won't be the primary solution in 10 years.

While this is an Naval Aviation website most of the aviators here are very realistic about the capabilities and limitations of US Naval Aviation today, and many of us are also aware of the capabilities and limitations of other US weapon systems no matter the community or service. The reason I mention this is that you seem to think we are all naval aviation partisans when in fact many of us are probably more aware of what we can and can't do, and not just things that come off airplanes, than you seem to be.

I can quote 3 and 4 star Admirals who wear wings (plural), exercise results, and real world ops in a more classified space. I didn't just make this stuff up to throw stones.... and I know that you work in the Pentagon and are current on threat concerns at the operational / strategic level... which is why I postulated we're just talking past each other.

Was genuinely interested in an operational level of war discussion and not a dick measuring contest about tactics (which you win... not only am I not an aviator, but also I'm Irish), but oh well.

Let's be honest - when was the last time any Naval community engaged a near-peer enemy combatant ship at sea? This isn't something that anyone currently serving can realistically call themselves an expert. It's all just theorycraft.

If you say a few superhornets can take-off a carrier and find, fix, track, and target a level 1 combatant using their own organic radars because every 3rd party option is jammed, then engage it using harpoons, all while not being destroyed by SAMs or any other defensive counter air threat... Well, okay, who am I to argue? I'm just saying that doesn't reflect reality of any plan I've seen go upchain.

But I'll gladly defer to you or any other pilot to sell it to leadership, and willing to concede there's something I possibly don't know about at the SAP level that could make such a plan successful.

 

[Brett327]

This isn't something that anyone currently serving can realistically call themselves an expert. It's all just theorycraft.

This revelation doesn’t bode well for your own platform expertise, now does it. 😂

 

[Gatordev]

I took out the very first AGM-119 detachment in HSL-48 . . .

I may have told this story before, but when I first showed up to -37 (literally a few days after), one of the dets tried to launch what was either the last Penguin shot or one of the very last shots. When they pickled the weapon, the front lock on the BRU released but the aft one did not. The nose of the missile dropped a bit and then yawed out into the wind stream, thereby point the motor towards the fuselage, and as you know, right behind the AW.

Everyone apparently just stared at it for a moment trying to figure out what to do next, since the EPs didn't really cover a partially hung, armed missile. The AW said he could pop the window out and try and kick the back of the weapon loose, but as you can imagine, that idea was vetoed.

I think they finally ended up just landing with it, either on the boat or at the range (I can't remember if it was PMRF or San Clemente). No doubt that download took some time.

I want to say they deployed with at least one Penguin, but only ever flew with Hellfires, especially after OIF kicked off on their deployment.

The capability of that missile was actually really good, kind of like a mini-Harpoon, but the Navy never bought the Mx package with it (as it was explained to me), so the US version was extremely unreliable as they aged. I believe the Navy only bought ~100 units.

 

[robav8r]

I may have told this story before, but when I first showed up to -37 (literally a few days after), one of the dets tried to launch what was either the last Penguin shot or one of the very last shots. When they pickled the weapon, the front lock on the BRU released but the aft one did not. The nose of the missile dropped a bit and then yawed out into the wind stream, thereby point the motor towards the fuselage, and as you know, right behind the AW.

Everyone apparently just stared at it for a moment trying to figure out what to do next, since the EPs didn't really cover a partially hung, armed missile. The AW said he could pop the window out and try and kick the back of the weapon loose, but as you can imagine, that idea was vetoed.

I think they finally ended up just landing with it, either on the boat or at the range (I can't remember if it was PMRF or San Clemente). No doubt that download took some time.

I want to say they deployed with at least one Penguin, but only ever flew with Hellfires, especially after OIF kicked off on their deployment.

The capability of that missile was actually really good, kind of like a mini-Harpoon, but the Navy never bought the Mx package with it (as it was explained to me), so the US version was extremely unreliable as they aged. I believe the Navy only bought ~100 units.

We were a two-plane det on USS CONOLLY (DD-979), that was an "interesting" deployment from the AGM-119 perspective. I have many anecdotes and sea stories about HSL deploying as an armed, Anti-Surface platform. I think everyone can agree that the AGM-114 was a much better weapon system for rotary wing assets. . . . . .

 

[taxi1]

The AW said he could pop the window out and try and kick the back of the weapon loose

 

[Griz882]

Let's be honest - when was the last time any Naval community engaged a near-peer enemy combatant ship at sea? This isn't something that anyone currently serving can realistically call themselves an expert. It's all just theorycraft.

To answer your question:
The US Navy last FOUGHT a peer-to-peer at sea conflict in 1945. It last ENGAGED (as in maneuvered/plotted) a peer in late 1990’s agains the Soviet Union (Cold War).

The Chinese People’s Army Navy has never FOUGHT a peer-to-peer fleet. It has never ENGAGED a peer fleet at sea.

Experience matters. The underway replenishment systems developed in WWII have been perfected to now. The ASW systems challenged so well during the Cold War are better and still improving. The Chinese have some very slick weapons systems but they are not combat tested. I’m not saying a war with China will be easy, but it is foolish to think every Chinese system will work as advertised.

The greatest weakness the US faces now isn’t in fleet composition, strategy, or tactics, it’s in force regeneration- both manpower and ships.

 

[taxi1]

I’m not saying a war with China will be easy

I'm misremembering the quote, "The way we take a beach is through a combined arms assault, the way the Chinese take a beach is each guy puts a handful of sand in their pocket."

 

[robav8r]

Yeah, like the tube rats in the Hawkeye were any better . . . 🤣

 

[Mos]

When they pickled the weapon, the front lock on the BRU released but the aft one did not. The nose of the missile dropped a bit and then yawed out into the wind stream

Different mechanism but this was a scenario oft discussed for the AGM-65F on the P-3, and whether to jettison in the unlikely event of a hung but firing missile right away or wait for it to finish running. After experiencing what it was like to launch one for the first time, I figured if it happened to me I would just let it run, since it'd probably be half way burned out by the time I configured the switches.