707guy
"You can't make this shit up..."
THIS...is the key to happiness in the universe...and balance in the force...
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Service member being an idiot
- Thread starter exNavyOffRec
- Start date
THIS...is the key to happiness in the universe...and balance in the force...
I think the problem is that the Navy (Military?) thinks they can put measures in place via "training" or "consequences" to put a stop to behavior that has NO response to such measures.
For the same reason that the threat of prison doesn't keep people from using drugs, these measures will have NO effect on the people with actual problems.
I'm not saying a good number of people can't go out and do something stupid once or twice in their life, buuuuut..... having done a LOT of stupid crap in my day, I've never been arrested nor have I harmed anyone.... I know, AW. I know.
I think you'll find that the most egregious cases are cases where the person has a history of violence/alcoholism/criminal behavior/childhood abuse. No one drinks too much and goes out and rapes someone. That person is a criminal and a curfew wasn't going to stop that. That sort of thing usually has a deep-seated history. Likewise, if a guy is stumbling drunk more than once, especially while on det, imagine how bad it is when he's home and no one's watching.
But it's OK. I am just riffing here. Not like the Navy has done a whole lot of research into mental health. Those 2-1-0 pamphlets about safe drinking are really effective! My favorite was "If you have trouble controlling how much you drink or you black out easily, don't drink".
Really? Is that how you cure an alcoholic? Just tell him not to drink? Jesus christ... who got a FITREP bullet for creating that dumbass program??
Bottom line: the intent is obviously good, but the results in cases like this are just knee-jerk bandaid fixes. They don't actually DO anything, but they make everyone feel better about it.
For the same reason that the threat of prison doesn't keep people from using drugs, these measures will have NO effect on the people with actual problems.
I'm not saying a good number of people can't go out and do something stupid once or twice in their life, buuuuut..... having done a LOT of stupid crap in my day, I've never been arrested nor have I harmed anyone.... I know, AW. I know.
I think you'll find that the most egregious cases are cases where the person has a history of violence/alcoholism/criminal behavior/childhood abuse. No one drinks too much and goes out and rapes someone. That person is a criminal and a curfew wasn't going to stop that. That sort of thing usually has a deep-seated history. Likewise, if a guy is stumbling drunk more than once, especially while on det, imagine how bad it is when he's home and no one's watching.
But it's OK. I am just riffing here. Not like the Navy has done a whole lot of research into mental health. Those 2-1-0 pamphlets about safe drinking are really effective! My favorite was "If you have trouble controlling how much you drink or you black out easily, don't drink".
Really? Is that how you cure an alcoholic? Just tell him not to drink? Jesus christ... who got a FITREP bullet for creating that dumbass program??
Bottom line: the intent is obviously good, but the results in cases like this are just knee-jerk bandaid fixes. They don't actually DO anything, but they make everyone feel better about it.
No. You make him sign the ubiquitous "roster" as proof of his training, and you back it up with a signed Page 13/Page 11.
Then, when he screws up, you make his OIC stand tall and tell him that it's his fault, as SN Snuffy's shortcomings are obviously due to the OIC's Failure of Leadership.
Hah, of course! Punishment for all my friends! We've come a long way with things like PTSD, from a time where Gen Patton said "Send that yellow son of a bitch back to the front lines!" to today where people understand it as a condition of great mental and emotional distress. Why haven't we made similar strides with other mental disorders like addiction/trauma history (which I'd bet a LOT of kids coming into the service these days have a trauma history of some kind of abuse in childhood and could benefit a lot from treatment).
A pg13 counseling and/or NJP for an ARI is NOT going to fix a problem, if it is in fact, a "problem" and not a one-time isolated dumbass incident. But that being said, "consequences" is one of the main criteria in addiction, so.... if you find yourself in trouble: you likely have a problem.
But, back to the main point. This is more about a CYA, and not actually about helping people. A Pg13/written counseling and a begrudged counseling of "If you have a problem we can help, and OBTW, lose a stripe and half-month's pay for 3 months etc etc" is only going to make the problem worse, and is done just to document an issue. This is made VERY clear in the fact that relapse (which is almost part of the very definition of addiction, and extremely common) is grounds for dismissal from the service. So how much do they care? Uh... arguable. We'll help you after we're done punishing you, and also... if you relaps like 80% (whatever the number) do, then you're GONE!
If you want to talk about overseas/deployment screenings and delve into the topic of psych evals for things MORE than just alcoholism/addiction and talk about how Rapists/murders somehow make it into the service and succeed, that's ALSO a very interesting topic (like the serial murderer RCAF Colonel who had many interactions with the POTUS and other high-ranking officials).
Well, now there's a liberty curfew AND an alcohol curfew. Daydrinking, anyone?
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
The WAR ON FUN is well underway.
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Sent from my PH44100 using Tapatalk 2
Looks like the 3-Star thinks he has a plan to enforce the arbitrary drinking curfew. This should be fun.
Do you have any experience with the Navy's alcohol treatment programs? There's actually a pretty robust system in place, from long-term, sustained counseling to more shorter-term "reactionary" counseling. I'm not going to argue the effectiveness of the treatments, because obviously they have varied successes (I have seen positive and negative results), but the Navy does have more than just a Page 13 and annual NKO training in place. Unfortunately, this just continues to beg the question why can't people not be idiots.
Sometimes. Sometimes the person was invited to come play (after both parties were drinking socially) and at some later date the incident "became" a rape. Yes, it happens...even to pilots.
This sums up everything:
Hey, he listened to Loveline once in college. He's an expert on addiction.
So...for people that have spent some time over there, would the latest drunken shenanigans be such a big deal if those TAD dickheads hadn't caused a spike in tensions beforehand?
In other words, did the post-rape incident curfew create the recent rash of libo incidents or is it par for the course stuff that would normally be swept under the rug?
In other words, did the post-rape incident curfew create the recent rash of libo incidents or is it par for the course stuff that would normally be swept under the rug?
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
Yes. No.
This kind of thing is cyclic over there. Ups and downs. Nothing gets "swept under the rug" there. Every ARI is a flag briefable event. Nothing new.
I will offer this for consideration:
1) If you treat people like children, they'll act like children
2) If you treat people like adults, they'll act like adults.
3) Idiots always act like idiots.....because they're idiots.
4) Never try to fix a genuine idiot. Just identify them and get them out of your organization ASAP.