Impossible. You could turn it into a prison and people would still make toilet wine, smuggling orange peels in from the chow hall.
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Service member being an idiot
- Thread starter exNavyOffRec
- Start date
Impossible. You could turn it into a prison and people would still make toilet wine, smuggling orange peels in from the chow hall.
Apparently there has been another incident. With the direction this is heading, there will be CONUS curfews.
Disagree.
Punishing the masses is best left at entry-level training. Outside of that type of environment, it only serves to limit personal accountability and diminish morale. We claim to be a professional organization - in fact, to promote our professionalism, we have formations on the first of every month where we high five each other about "Special Trust and Confidence." Professional organizations whose members supposedly have "Special Trust and Confidence" do not need to punish the 99% who "get it" for the transgressions of a few.
Crush those who punt it into the stands, but leave the rest of us alone.
In my opinion, group punishment may be an effective tool when you are doing team building (boot camp, OCS, etc) when you are trying to instill the how unit success or failure may ride on the actions ( or inactions) of an individuall, but once you get into the fleet, punishing the masses for the stupidity of a single or few is counter productive to good morale.
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
Well put, and I agree.
I guess what I was trying to say was that it's ok to make a point if used very sparingly and in an environment where everybody knows the person that caused the group pain, like in entry level training. I remember it working well my freshman year in that regard.
If a commander thinks that group punishment in and of itself has value besides just making a point, particularly across a unit or region comprised of tens of thousands of people who couldn't possibly know each other, then he's kidding himself.
Japan is not some mythical place where crime doesn't exist. There are several thousand reported rapes a year in Japan that are never reported in the papers. Accounting for the US military's portion of the Japanese population, the crime rate tiny fraction of what it should be. There were a few articles in one of the Tokyo papers recently with the exact stats.
There a significant portion of Okinawa that does not want the US there at all. The rape occurred shortly after very large protests against stationing the Osprey at Futenma. These events are being used for partisan reasons within Japan.
Additionally, alcohol was not a factor in the rape. It was a premeditated crime committed by criminals who were TDY to Japan and thought they could get away with it.
No one said there is no crime in Japan. However, if you look at the statistics, Japan is a much safer place than the States are. Do you wish to argue that fact?
I don't think we need a knee jerk reaction, but since we are in the middle of one, my vote is that we take out the primary causal factor to most incidents. Don't tell me I can't be out in town past 2300. Tell the stupid TAD E-3 that he can't drink out in town past 2300. Unless you are a JAG, I'm not sure you know all of the factors in the rape. And if you are a JAG, I'm sure you aren't supposed to be talking about them in the first place. But my guess is that isn't the case.
No one is arguing the fact that the Okinawan's don't want us there. It is and has been a very sensitive area for years. The main reason why there is a 7th fleet curfew now. This doesn't just affect those in Okinawa. It's everyone in Japan paying the price for the sins of those that can't handle the island without getting bombed out of their minds.
I don't think we need a knee jerk reaction, but since we are in the middle of one, my vote is that we take out the primary causal factor to most incidents. Don't tell me I can't be out in town past 2300. Tell the stupid TAD E-3 that he can't drink out in town past 2300. Unless you are a JAG, I'm not sure you know all of the factors in the rape. And if you are a JAG, I'm sure you aren't supposed to be talking about them in the first place. But my guess is that isn't the case.
No one is arguing the fact that the Okinawan's don't want us there. It is and has been a very sensitive area for years. The main reason why there is a 7th fleet curfew now. This doesn't just affect those in Okinawa. It's everyone in Japan paying the price for the sins of those that can't handle the island without getting bombed out of their minds.
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
How, exactly, do you plan to enforce that?
Remember, the TAD E-3 already ignored the rules about drunkenness, rape, etc. Why would he care about your arbitrary drinking curfew?
Yeah, those people are called alcoholics, and probably need to be directed to treatment, before they do something that requires punishment.
Ever spent a year subject to GO #1?
Are these curfews and attitudes towards U.S. personnel limited to Okinawa or is it a Japan thing? I would like to do a tour out there some day, but I have always had an aversion because of the stories and hearsay of policies.
Not quite yet, but pretty soon... Yup!
Not quite yet, but pretty soon... Yup!
