-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
Service member being an idiot
- Thread starter exNavyOffRec
- Start date
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
If your goal is zero incidents ever, then that's simply impossible. If it's to reduce the number of incidents, setting up a screening process that includes reviewing high school records, reviewing extra-curriculars, and conducting interviews can do that. Officers commit these offenses at a much lower rate. It's not because a commission makes us more moral, it's because we had to pass an in-depth screening process to get hired and went through training pipelines that would gladly weed out people who sucked or weren't committed.
Speaking of general suck and uncommitted, we should also move away from the antiquated model that we won't fire people except in egregious cases. We all volunteered for military service; no reason it should take extreme cases to fire people.
Or we can keep taking anyone who can pass the ASVAB and a physical at MEPS, push them through a joke of a boot camp, consider their feelings when trying to tell them that no, you can't just decide to skip work for no reason, wonder why our Chiefs can't fix them, and act surprised when they get a DUI or get accused of sexual assault. Because clearly that system is working.
This man speaks the TRUTH!
To qoute phrogpilot, "Idiots will be Idiots and the best thing you can do is seperate them from your organization quickly."
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
Dude.....
Well, that's certainly well intentioned, but not particularly practical. There are a lot of reasons Officers are less prone to disciplinary issues. I could list 10 reasons other than the level of entry screening they receive, but you're not going to stop bad behavior by more screening. Reduce? Perhaps, but not stop. It only takes one asshole Airman (or 1st Lt) to get the natives riled up. You then open up another can of worms by limiting (through screening) the number of otherwise elligible applicants. Before you know it, recruiters can't make their quotas and we're spending a shit ton of money we don't have on signing bonuses, etc.
Unless you could prove a level of efficacy that would offset the downsides (of which I've presented just a few), you're not really helping the big picture. So, like I said, as soon as you come up with a foolproof way of screening out shitbags, it's not particularly helpful. Until then, we have to use the tools available to us.
Where we do agree is on the "firing" part. We might want to look at giving COs greater lattitude in the ADSEP process. Frankly though, problem children don't seem to have too much trouble meeting the Pg13/NJP/Pg13 sandwich. I've never seen a guy who needed to get booted stick around for very long.
I know it sucks when the draconian edicts come down from on high, but leaders at all levels are just reacting to the circumstances they face. As long as the Japanese continue to go high and right for every liberty incident, there's going to be a political response from our government. Our Government values its relationship with Japan, so it's the cost of doing business and none of us should be surprised about that.
My fault. That was you. I get you two mixed up for some reason.
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
Now that was just rude. Come on, man!
hahaha I'm not taking sides. I was 15 hours into duty. Honest mistake!
I am not in a position to make waves, but if someone wants to sue over this or write a letter to a Congressman regarding curfews on US soil that would be awesome.
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
Brett, your post illustrates why the divo and below level bang their heads against the wall -- any time an idea is proposed that presents a change from the status quo, it is at best dismissed the minute that it won't work 100% of the time, even if it could produce measurably improved results. At worst it gets bastardized into a policy that actually makes things worse. As I stated in the first sentence of my previous post, a military where absolutely no incidents of misbehavior occur is impossible, particularly when we have more rules to follow. Nothing anyone does will acheive that goal, including draconian measures, so dismissing something because it can't achieve an impossible goal is a bit ridiculous.
The downside that you listed is that it could restrict manning if people opted for civilian employment, but I'm not asking for all honor role students. Someone with a C or better average, attended all his classes, has a clean criminal history, and did something other than drink beer or smoke weed in his spare time will suffice. But again, if the Navy has to bottom feed on teenagers with checkered pasts to meet peacetime manning, then something else is wrong. Right now there is practically no character screening at all. A 19 year old with a pulse and GED walks into a recruiting office, he gets scheduled for MEPS, passes a physical, and off he goes to boot camp.
The downside that you listed is that it could restrict manning if people opted for civilian employment, but I'm not asking for all honor role students. Someone with a C or better average, attended all his classes, has a clean criminal history, and did something other than drink beer or smoke weed in his spare time will suffice. But again, if the Navy has to bottom feed on teenagers with checkered pasts to meet peacetime manning, then something else is wrong. Right now there is practically no character screening at all. A 19 year old with a pulse and GED walks into a recruiting office, he gets scheduled for MEPS, passes a physical, and off he goes to boot camp.
Lulz
So you want to change the last 4000 years of military recruiting. Roger that.
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
bastard!
Like I said, good idea on paper, but the reason so many "good ideas" get shot down (as you lament) is because people who suggest them may not have considered the second and third order effects. That's normal and completely understandable. The things that NAVPERS actual has in his scan are probably way outside what you think about. I've just illustrated a couple reasons why clamping down on entry requirements may not be as good an idea as it might sound. Magic screening formula notwithstanding, it's tough to make realistic recommendations about big picture issues when you're looking through the soda straw of your JO tour.
magnetfreezer
Well-Known Member
Interesting scientific perspective on the issue: http://www.stripes.com/news/restric...rs-in-japan-could-create-more-issues-1.199357