USN Showdown between Super Hornet and F-35

[Griz882]

A longer article from The Drive concerning the new Commandant and possible changes to the Gator Navy.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...m-the-corps-by-giving-up-big-amphibious-ships

View attachment 22967

Interesting article and very forward thinking. Years ago (early 80's) the Marines toyed around with the idea of putting a small Marine detachment on frigates and destroyers - a play on the old Naval Landing Party concept allowing the Navy to put a small group in a troubled spot very quickly. It was all experimental, but the driving idea was that it would spread capability away from the big grey fleet.

 

[Randy Daytona]

Interesting article and very forward thinking. Years ago (early 80's) the Marines toyed around with the idea of putting a small Marine detachment on frigates and destroyers - a play on the old Naval Landing Party concept allowing the Navy to put a small group in a troubled spot very quickly. It was all experimental, but the driving idea was that it would spread capability away from the big grey fleet.

"Likewise, we are not defined by any particular organizing construct – the Marine Air-Ground Task Force (MAGTF) cannot be our only solution for all crises,” Berger wrote. Like amphibious assault ships, the MAGTF will not be disappearing anytime soon either, but the Marine Corps force planners will no longer operate on the assumption that the MAGTF is the only option available to them.

General Berger goes on to observe that “the current force is not organized, trained, or equipped to support the naval force.” In other words, the current construct consists of the Navy transporting Marines on deployment and into battle. Berger sees the proliferation of ASCM and ASBM weapons as being significant enough that the Marines are going to have to start thinking about how to fight at sea in cooperation with the Navy, instead of merely fighting from the sea towards land.

As an example of this, the Marines have been testing the M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) onboard amphibious assault ships not merely as cargo to transport from one spot to another, but as an auxiliary weapons system that can be launched from onboard the ship.

The V-22 and F-35B are really game changers for the Corps. Wonder if we are going to see the gators in Lightening Carrier configurations more often? Couple of big deck gators could give you 40-50 more F-35's. Likewise, will be curious to see if you see smaller (company sized) detachments of Marines on multiple smaller ships.

 

[Brett327]

I don’t think anyone has envisioned or thought about how to integrate 20-25 F35 from a small deck.

 

[Flash]

The V-22 and F-35B are really game changers for the Corps. Wonder if we are going to see the gators in Lightening Carrier configurations more often? Couple of big deck gators could give you 40-50 more F-35's.

For what reason? Seriously, there is little to no reason to do that.

 

[Randy Daytona]

For what reason? Seriously, there is little to no reason to do that.

From what the Commandant has said, it looks like the Marines are experimenting with a lot of different options instead of the cookie-cutter MEU configuration. While a traditional MEU might still work in Third World countries, it might be that a better use of Pacific assets would be the LPD and LSD doing company sized insertions while the big deck gators supporting the blue water Navy as Lightning carriers. A multiple gator task force armed with F-35's instead of helicopters would be more relevant in certain circumstances.

https://news.usni.org/2019/09/13/ho...ne-corps-recipes-for-expeditionary-operations

Speaking of F-35's operating from carriers, a good luck at the Royal Navy's newest carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth in action.

https://news.usni.org/2019/09/11/dsei-new-carriers-sparking-royal-navy-renaissance

 

[Treetop Flyer]

A “company sized insertion” is pointless.

And no, that’s not what she said.

 

[Austin-Powers]

Why did the Royal Navy opt for another ramp again as opposed to a catapult?

 

[HAL Pilot]

Why did the Royal Navy opt for another ramp again as opposed to a catapult?

Less cost and less complexity. Not needed if you plan on using VTOL aircraft.

 

[Austin-Powers]

Does this mean we might get a Falklands War II: The Seaquel?

 

[AIRMMCPORET]

Why did the Royal Navy opt for another ramp again as opposed to a catapult?

Why two super structures??

 

[Notanaviator]

Why two super structures??

Forward super structure is for navigation, aft superstructure is for air ops, and it serves to spread out some of the engineering and radars etc... there’s some discussion of the design out there.

 

[Randy Daytona]

Why two super structures??

Not the first time the Brits designed a carrier like this. I mentioned the UK's planned but never built Malta class carriers earlier. Roughly equivalent to the Midway class, it too had a dual island superstructure. According to wikipedia: Because the unarmoured flight deck required an expansion joint about amidships, the Maltas' island could not be a single structure and was split into two, each section with its own funnel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malta-class_aircraft_carrier

 

[Pags]

Not the first time the Brits designed a carrier like this. I mentioned the UK's planned but never built Malta class carriers earlier. Roughly equivalent to the Midway class, it too had a dual island superstructure. According to wikipedia: Because the unarmoured flight deck required an expansion joint about amidships, the Maltas' island could not be a single structure and was split into two, each section with its own funnel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malta-class_aircraft_carrier

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Interesting. I had never heard of the Malta class. Knowledges ☑️

 

[Randy Daytona]

Interesting article and very forward thinking. Years ago (early 80's) the Marines toyed around with the idea of putting a small Marine detachment on frigates and destroyers - a play on the old Naval Landing Party concept allowing the Navy to put a small group in a troubled spot very quickly. It was all experimental, but the driving idea was that it would spread capability away from the big grey fleet.

As a followup, the Marines are looking at offshore oil work boats.

Marines, Navy Both Considering Something Like an Offshore Support Vessel to Supplement Amphibs
MARINE CORPS BASE QUANTICO – As the Navy and the Marine Corps narrow in on what their future amphibious operations might look like, they are considering acquiring something akin to an Offshore Support Vessel to help Marines distribute around a littoral environment in a future fight.

https://news.usni.org/page/2

Here is a look at some of the examples in the Gulf of Mexico. Got to land on one of the ships with the forward helo platform back in the day. The fast supply vessels can get up to close to 30 knots.
http://www.chouest.com/vessels.html



Holiday, 288′ Multi-Purpose Supply Vessel


Fast Titan, 194′ Fast Supply Vessel

 

[azguy]

As a followup, the Marines are looking at offshore oil work boats.

Marines, Navy Both Considering Something Like an Offshore Support Vessel to Supplement Amphibs
MARINE CORPS BASE QUANTICO – As the Navy and the Marine Corps narrow in on what their future amphibious operations might look like, they are considering acquiring something akin to an Offshore Support Vessel to help Marines distribute around a littoral environment in a future fight.

https://news.usni.org/page/2

Here is a look at some of the examples in the Gulf of Mexico. Got to land on one of the ships with the forward helo platform back in the day. The fast supply vessels can get up to close to 30 knots.
http://www.chouest.com/vessels.html

View attachment 23085

Holiday, 288′ Multi-Purpose Supply Vessel

View attachment 23086
Fast Titan, 194′ Fast Supply Vessel

Maybe this is what SWO Early Command looks like in 2030.