USN Showdown between Super Hornet and F-35

[jmcquate]

Not arguing that it can't be done, but if the Corps wants to get back to it's unique expeditionary mission, like the Corps leadership says, this idea is stillborn.

 

[Pags]

There are 22 jets in that diagram, and not all the hangar space is taken.

Good on you for actually counting. The space forward that's open in the hangar is usually taken up by SE. Metal mountain is usually back aft. In fact our stbd el was useless for anything other than trading out the barn harrier because of all the crap that was stored around it (assuming it hadn't been canned to make the port one work). Beyond AIR, AIMD, and the ACE the rest of the Blue/Green team always contrived to make the hangar theirs and we were always negotiating competing requirements. You can't fix airplanes, do a big staff op walk through, stash the grunts, sort the NEOs, MCMAP, hide giant boxes of trash, and yoga all at the same time but that won't stop everyone from trying.

 

[Pags]

My Air Boss was the Handler on BHR when they brought 20+ harriers on board. He said the fly on was retarded.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Good on you for actually counting. The space forward that's open in the hangar is usually taken up by SE. Metal mountain is usually back aft. In fact our stbd el was useless for anything other than trading out the barn harrier because of all the crap that was stored around it (assuming it hadn't been canned to make the port one work). Beyond AIR, AIMD, and the ACE the rest of the Blue/Green team always contrived to make the hangar theirs and we were always negotiating competing requirements. You can't fix airplanes, do a big staff op walk through, stash the grunts, sort the NEOs, MCMAP, hide giant boxes of trash, and yoga all at the same time but that won't stop everyone from trying.

Well without the choppers or a well deck, there'd be less room required by marine-fu. On a boat with a well deck, things would be tight, but without, there should be space and fuel.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

My Air Boss was the Handler on BHR when they brought 20+ harriers on board. He said the fly on was retarded.

The fly on I witnessed was retarded with six jets. The first two sat on 6 and 9 while no one "de-armed" their inert missiles. After the first go around, the O-3 LSO yelled at the air boss: if you don't move those jets, you'll have two jets in the water in 90 seconds.

 

[Jim123]

Another take on the subject.

U.S. Marines Want to Pack 20 Stealth Fighters on One Assault Ship

They're not very stealthy. I mean I can see them right there!

 

[Pags]

Well without the choppers or a well deck, there'd be less room required by marine-fu. On a boat with a well deck, things would be tight, but without, there should be space and fuel.

Not saying it can't be done since its been done successfully on other L-classes. We beat the idea up a few months ago in another thread. I'm mostly making the funnies and pointing out that it's not as easy as the pretty pictures make it seem.

The fly on I witnessed was retarded with six jets. The first two sat on 6 and 9 while no one "de-armed" their inert missiles. After the first go around, the O-3 LSO yelled at the air boss: if you don't move those jets, you'll have two jets in the water in 90 seconds.

That is retarded.

Harrier ops were always "Type 2 Fun." Very challenging and with low margin for error but a thing of beauty when executed well.

 

[IKE]

My Air Boss was the Handler on BHR when they brought 20+ harriers on board. He said the fly on was retarded.

I was there. The harrier carrier almost didn't happen due to a small shipboard radio nobody thought about until it broke.

Would make a good study in systems engineering.

 

[Randy Daytona]

Articles out today on both smaller aircraft carriers and upgrades to the F/A-18.

Small Aircraft Carriers: RAND Report Won’t Convince McCain
Seemed to really like the America class to give the Marines more capability from the air.

https://breakingdefense.com/2017/10...98.224145596.1508412899-1410852805.1508313644


Boeing Might Include Stealthy Features on Overhauled US Navy Super Hornets
The service life extension program will give the jets thousands more flight hours, but could include other upgrades.

The article did mention a significant increase in range with conformal fuel cells - which seems like a good thing.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...-features-on-overhauled-us-navy-super-hornets


The article underneath caught my attention. I had never considered a F/A-18 could take off from a ski-jump carrier.

Boeing Says Super Hornet Fully Compatible With Indian Navy Ski-Jump Carriers
Boeing makes its pitch to bring the Super Hornet to Indian Navy aircraft carriers.

Boeing seeks to make the F/A-18 Super Hornet the Indian Navy's primary naval fighter of the future—one that can fly from both India's ski-jump equipped aircraft carriers in the near term and catapult equipped ones in the future.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...compatible-with-indian-navy-ski-jump-carriers

 

[Flash]

Well, I guess Boeing will have to get rid of those 18 extra Supers they were planning to sell to Canada somehow.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Boeing Says Super Hornet Fully Compatible With Indian Navy Ski-Jump Carriers

I believe it. The only question is, how far do we need to de-fuel the airplane?

 

[jmcquate]

Funny, a while back we were trying to sell (basically give) the Kitty Hawk to the Indians just for the Super Hornet sales.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Well given our backlog for Super Hornet / Growler engines, the future is pretty bright for guys like @Brett327

 

[Randy Daytona]

Changing gears, I can readily imagine that people are dreaming of a CVL/CVA because of how it would help a potential future war against China. LHDs are great for low intensity banana war kind of conflicts and for once you have air and naval supremacy. But if you're trying to fight your way in to the 9 dash line against swarms of hypersonic ASCMs and DF-21s raining from the sky the LHD and it's 6 jets is just a nice missile sponge. sure you can make the LHD in to a harrier carrier but it's sortie generation rate, self defense (no organic AEW), and striking power would still be limited by the straight deck. A "new midway" would be attractive because it could carry a MEU for when you need to bop East Timor on the nose but could also trade out the VMM(REIN) for more F-35s and maybe some E-2s or some added F-18s. Who knows where'd those airframes/squadrons would come from but a man can dream.

The US is creating 'mini' carrier strike groups, and they are already proving their worth in combat

• The Marines have been experimenting with a new carrier concept known as the "Lightning carrier."
• The corps is exploring the possibilities of combining large amphibious assault ships and the fifth-generation F-35B Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter to create highly capable light aircraft carriers.
• At the same time, the service is also looking at turning the amphibious readiness groups led by the big amphibious forces into "mini" carrier strike groups.
• "We're definitely changing the way amphibs are employed," Lt. Cmdr. David Mahoney, the Amphibious Squadron 1 operations officer, said, according to USNI News. "We're no longer just the trucks that carry Marines."

The USS Essex sails alongside the aircraft carrier USS John C. Stennis.

https://www.businessinsider.com/uss...um=referral&utm_content=allverticals#comments

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...-operating-off-disputed-south-china-sea-shoal

 

[ChuckMK23]

Smart. Give the Marines credit - they aren’t looking at F-35 as a drop in replacement for Harrier but a change in paradigm. 25+ F-35’s on a LHD? Go for it! Redefine “cyclic ops”.