USN Showdown between Super Hornet and F-35

[Jim123]

Thread title made this song pop in my head:

And it's raaaaaaaaing, all over the wooooooorld.

The song was in my head and now the song is in your head.

 

[Brett327]

I don’t think they’re designed to carry 25+ F-35s.

 

[SynixMan]

Nice solution for when you're -53s are broken AF.

 

[Pags]

I don’t think they’re designed to carry 25+ F-35s.

Basic LHD/A design is a bit older than the F-35.

 

[Flash]

The US is creating 'mini' carrier strike groups, and they are already proving their worth in combat

• The Marines have been experimenting with a new carrier concept known as the "Lightning carrier."
• The corps is exploring the possibilities of combining large amphibious assault ships and the fifth-generation F-35B Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter to create highly capable light aircraft carriers.
• At the same time, the service is also looking at turning the amphibious readiness groups led by the big amphibious forces into "mini" carrier strike groups.
• "We're definitely changing the way amphibs are employed," Lt. Cmdr. David Mahoney, the Amphibious Squadron 1 operations officer, said, according to USNI News. "We're no longer just the trucks that carry Marines."

I'm curious how they are going to handle any sort of credible ASCM threat without AEW or a clutch of CG/DDG's. And "proving their worth in combat"?!

 

[Hair Warrior]

If the only aircraft onboard is the F-35B, what do they do for aerial refueling, airborne early warning and control, plane guard, and to a lesser extent VERTREP/onboard delivery?

 

[ChuckMK23]

Nice solution for when you're -53s are broken AF.

Not to start a threadjack but the investment in the H-53 is finally starting to pay off - its really a similar story to the H-46 for the Marines. Ironically, the CH-53E may be at its best when it finally retires just like the '46 was.

https://news.usni.org/2019/03/19/ma...ck-readiness-amid-replacements-testing-delays

 

[Flash]

If the only aircraft onboard is the F-35B, what do they do for aerial refueling, airborne early warning and control, plane guard, and to a lesser extent VERTREP/onboard delivery?

The rest is already taken care of or is not a critical necessity and can be mitigated, but AEW is critical in a conflict with an adversary equipped with the latest anti-ship weapons. The Brits were stymied by a mere 5 Exocets, I would hate to think how an ESG would fare against an adversary with hundreds of ASCM's or even more capable weapons.

 

[ChuckMK23]

The rest is already taken care of or is not a critical necessity and can be mitigated, but AEW is critical in a conflict with an adversary equipped with the latest anti-ship weapons. The Brits were stymied by a mere 5 Exocets, I would hate to think how an ESG would fare against an adversary with hundreds of ASCM's or even more capable weapons.

The RN then came up with this rather clever solution for AEW...

 

[BigRed389]

I'm curious how they are going to handle any sort of credible ASCM threat without AEW or a clutch of CG/DDG's. And "proving their worth in combat"?!

The DDGs are going to be there regardless (we wouldn't let ESGs go into a missile threat area undefended), so my question is whether the F-35B CAP can be turned into a reasonable AEW stand in...because any airborne sensor networked to an AEGIS ship can put that missile magazine to good use.

 

[robav8r]

The DDGs are going to be there regardless (we wouldn't let ESGs go into a missile threat area undefended), so my question is whether the F-35B CAP can be turned into a reasonable AEW stand in...because any airborne sensor networked to an AEGIS ship can put that missile magazine to good use.

Uh . . . . no. When the PRC had an OOA deployer get close to the BOXARG in 2014, getting ANY surface ship escort was an issue. CG-56 was ultimately dispatched with her Romeo detachment, but getting a dedicated DDG/CG/LCS asset to stay with deployed ARG's is not exactly common place these days.

 

[Gatordev]

The DDGs are going to be there regardless (we wouldn't let ESGs go into a missile threat area undefended), so my question is whether the F-35B CAP can be turned into a reasonable AEW stand in...because any airborne sensor networked to an AEGIS ship can put that missile magazine to good use.

Seems like Romeo would help with that, since chances are they're already there with some of the AEGIS. The original ESG construct back in the mid-2000's was LHx complemented with CGs (and now DDGs) sporting two rails of -60B. The concept kind of evaporated for a while, but seems like the basic idea would still be sound with Romeo, assuming you have enough RAST capable DDGs to go around.

Edit: Rob posted just as I did...this seems to be doable with a change (fall back to) of CONOPS and utilizing the older ESG construct I mentioned.

 

[Hair Warrior]

The DDGs are going to be there regardless (we wouldn't let ESGs go into a missile threat area undefended), so my question is whether the F-35B CAP can be turned into a reasonable AEW stand in...because any airborne sensor networked to an AEGIS ship can put that missile magazine to good use.

Endurance (loiter time) compared to E-2D makes it impractical for the F-35B to run 24-7 AEW/CAP ops from an LHA/LHD with only two dozen F-35Bs onboard (less than that number operational).

The rest is already taken care of or is not a critical necessity and can be mitigated, but AEW is critical in a conflict with an adversary equipped with the latest anti-ship weapons. The Brits were stymied by a mere 5 Exocets, I would hate to think how an ESG would fare against an adversary with hundreds of ASCM's or even more capable weapons.

It seems like the 'lightning carrier' concept is geared to fight the previous war, in which we have uncontested airspace and the adversary lacks meaningful ASCM/CDCM standoff precision strike capability. But I'm not sure that type of adversary exists anymore. Heck, we can't even say that about the Houthis of Yemen: Ref 1, Ref 2

 

[Flash]

The RN then came up with this rather clever solution for AEW...

View attachment 21794

A stopgap solution that has lasted decades, and not up to the threat nowadays. Plus, there is the simple fact we would need to fund, develop and field a system like that on top of all the other competing requirements.

So yeah, where is the AEW support going to come from?

The DDGs are going to be there regardless (we wouldn't let ESGs go into a missile threat area undefended), so my question is whether the F-35B CAP can be turned into a reasonable AEW stand in...because any airborne sensor networked to an AEGIS ship can put that missile magazine to good use.

No.

 

[Hotdogs]

Endurance (loiter time) compared to E-2D makes it impractical for the F-35B to run 24-7 AEW/CAP ops from an LHA/LHD with only two dozen F-35Bs onboard (less than that number operational).

It seems like the 'lightning carrier' concept is geared to fight the previous war, in which we have uncontested airspace and the adversary lacks meaningful ASCM/CDCM standoff precision strike capability. But I'm not sure that type of adversary exists anymore. Heck, we can't even say that about the Houthis of Yemen: Ref 1, Ref 2

I don’t give a fuck about the F-35B or big deck shenanigans, but these types of conflicts are every where. They just don’t make the front page news and typically involve a lot of SOF and ISR players.