Sounds like change is coming...

[MasterBates]

I've posted this before.

I roomed with a gay man on a cruise. It was the most awkward deployment ever. Gazer is only a start of his description.

Now, me being an Ogre, I wasn't so worried about him trying to rape me and winning, but maybe the best allegory I can give is imagine if a 120 pound weakling who desperately wanted to get laid was made to room with a female basketball player. She may not be worried about him overpowering her, but it makes things tense at a minimum.

 

[CommodoreMid]

I've posted this before.

I roomed with a gay man on a cruise. It was the most awkward deployment ever. Gazer is only a start of his description.

Now, me being an Ogre, I wasn't so worried about him trying to rape me and winning, but maybe the best allegory I can give is imagine if a 120 pound weakling who desperately wanted to get laid was made to room with a female basketball player. She may not be worried about him overpowering her, but it makes things tense at a minimum.

The issue there I think goes back to professionalism. His gayness didn't bother you; his "gazing" did. That's behaving unprofessionally. On my 2/c cruise I was in a berthing with a bunch of lesbians who definitely saw me change and such, but I never felt uncomfortable because they acted appropriately. Again, I see it as an issue of people not bringing their sexuality into the workplace.

 

[LazersGoPEWPEW]

From reading the article it doesn't seem like this is going to do anything but eliminate DADT. I don't think that equates to allowing gays in the military. President Elect Obama might pursue that but from my understanding of the article there is no direct mention of that occurring.

Essentially if he doesn't allow gays openly in the military but repeals DADT then it goes back to pre-DADT where it's see you later. Someone please point out my mistake if I have made one in my interpretation of the article.

 

[Kickflip89]

From reading the article it doesn't seem like this is going to do anything but eliminate DADT. I don't think that equates to allowing gays in the military. President Elect Obama might pursue that but from my understanding of the article there is no direct mention of that occurring.

Essentially if he doesn't allow gays openly in the military but repeals DADT then it goes back to pre-DADT where it's see you later. Someone please point out my mistake if I have made one in my interpretation of the article.

This is just plain silly...which reminds me:


Seriously, though. There's no way Obama will repeal DADT without allowing gays in the military. I don't think it will harm too much, and if they're willing to give their life for the defense of the nation, then what's the problem?

 

[ImfromJersey]

well, Obama's entire campaign was predicated on "change". come January 20th, the american people, or at least the half that voted for him, are going to look to collect on his promise. since the economy is currently screwed sideways, he's gonna have to find other ways to temporarily placate a country looking for this "change" he promised. obviously we're an instant gratification based society, but hopefully he doesn't see this as a way to quickly please the people. if he immediatly repeals the current policies of the military, all hell will break loose. it's a touchy subject, very similar to the segregation issues of the past. in the 40's/50's, if african americans were just immediately thrown into all white units, we all pretty much know what the outcome would have been. it took decades to fully integrate the military. Obama's press secretary just wrote a huge check that alot of people are going to look to cash ASAP. if they try to enact a policy too fast, things will go terribly wrong. it'll be interesting how mr. change handles it.

 

[phrogdriver]

I know the Marine Core does not let unmarried troops live out in town. Will this change?

The Marine Corps does let unmarried troops live out in town if they put an AA form in and it gets approved. This happens often when the barracks are at high occupancy.

 

[Redux]

Again, I see it as an issue of people not bringing their sexuality into the workplace.

Lots of luck, wait till you get out in the real world. This ain't gonna be pretty, meat gazers tend to get brave at times.

 

[HercDriver]

Sweet, the Airwarriors quarterly "Gays in the Military" thread.
What did I miss?

 

[FlyinRock]

As a very young kid, I had some unpleasant experiences with a sexual predator/pervert. It created a homophobic attitude for many years and I mean a violent attitude. Then when I got into my 30's, I met some gays who were very discrete and I didn't know they were gay for nearly 10 years. As a result of that friendship, I got the opportunity to look inside the gay community as a friend rather than adversary. Didn't take long to recognize there is a distinct difference in being gay vs predatory pervert.
It caused a major change in my attitude towards gays. If they can do the job, pull the trigger when necessary, keep up with the rest of the group and do as required, I have no problem with what they do in private.
Over the years I have discovered more than a few of my long time close friends who are gay ( and some are dangerous gunfighters). I've also discovered a surprising number who use drugs (and are pilots) but it took many years to uncover it.
Bottom line is, I don't care unless it starts to affect their job or performance. Do what you are paid for and expected to do and I could give a shit what you do on liberty/on your own time. If you get busted in a compromising situation regardless of alcohol, drugs, sexuality, that is your problem and you'll have to deal with it. Won't get a lot of sympathy from me.
As others have said, if you get busted, no matter where or who with, its your problem and if it has a deleterious affect/effect on the rest of the crew, you should get tossed out on your ass. Discretion, discretion, discretion, no matter what you are doing.
Semper Fi
Rocky

 

[picklesuit]

I think what it comes down to is the ideal that sexuality as a whole should not be an issue in the military...but ideals are like assholes....what really happens is we have a large number of guys with high school educations who don't really desire to spend 6 months at sea feeling the way we all do during a piss-test.

I have a problem allowing gays in the military. I openly admit that I think homosexuality is wrong. I am not ashamed of the fact, I don't try to hide behind the "I have a gay friend" shield or the "As long as they don't hit on me" defense.

The military is here to defend our constitution against all enemies...not to be a model for social change. There is a reason women aren't on SEAL teams, there is a reason you will not see a female Scout Sniper, there is a reason women are not on Subs; and there is a reason homosexuals are not accepted in the military.

The military will probably have gay forced into our rnks, and I predict now that there will be MANY problems associated with the change. Many will be swept under the rug, but when someone gets hurt/killed for getting drunk with his buddies and making a pass at another dude, we will understand why it was a mistake.

Pickle

 

[HercDriver]

I think what it comes down to is the ideal that sexuality as a whole should not be an issue in the military...but ideals are like assholes....what really happens is we have a large number of guys with high school educations who don't really desire to spend 6 months at sea feeling the way we all do during a piss-test.[

What does having a high school vice college degree change?

I have a problem allowing gays in the military. I openly admit that I think homosexuality is wrong. I am not ashamed of the fact, I don't try to hide behind the "I have a gay friend" shield or the "As long as they don't hit on me" defense.

So you think it is a choice, not a thing that someone is born with? Just trying to understand your thinking.

The military is here to defend our constitution against all enemies...not to be a model for social change. There is a reason women aren't on SEAL teams, there is a reason you will not see a female Scout Sniper, there is a reason women are not on Subs; and there is a reason homosexuals are not accepted in the military.

What are the reasons that women don't serve in those capacities? Is it the inability to have privacy? Is it the physical abilities tied to those communities?

The military will probably have gay forced into our rnks, and I predict now that there will be MANY problems associated with the change. Many will be swept under the rug, but when someone gets hurt/killed for getting drunk with his buddies and making a pass at another dude, we will understand why it was a mistake.

Hate to break it to you, but gays are already serving in our ranks, in every service and probably every community. Just not openly. So it is an attitude issue, not a physical one for the most part. And someone making a pass at a shipmate, whether gay or straight is a leadership issue. I think what happend to MB should have been dealt with at the command level; obviously that failed.

I also think that most gays would not suddenly be hitting on their straight friends, as American male culture has a huge undercurrent of gay panic and fear of anything homosexual. Can't wear a pink shirt, drive a VW Bug convertible, listen to techno, etc., because...
Someone. Might (Dear God, NO!!!). Think. You. Are. Gay.

I'm sure many gays understand the stigma attached, and though they may serve openly, would know that they were probably one wierd look away from a blanket party or beat down.

 

[FlyinRock]

I think what it comes down to is the ideal that sexuality as a whole should not be an issue in the military...but ideals are like assholes....what really happens is we have a large number of guys with high school educations who don't really desire to spend 6 months at sea feeling the way we all do during a piss-test.

I have a problem allowing gays in the military. I openly admit that I think homosexuality is wrong. I am not ashamed of the fact, I don't try to hide behind the "I have a gay friend" shield or the "As long as they don't hit on me" defense.

The military is here to defend our constitution against all enemies...not to be a model for social change. There is a reason women aren't on SEAL teams, there is a reason you will not see a female Scout Sniper, there is a reason women are not on Subs; and there is a reason homosexuals are not accepted in the military.

The military will probably have gay forced into our rnks, and I predict now that there will be MANY problems associated with the change. Many will be swept under the rug, but when someone gets hurt/killed for getting drunk with his buddies and making a pass at another dude, we will understand why it was a mistake.

Pickle

***************
Pickle
And you betray your innocence of history like I did for many years. The most deadly snipers have been women! There is a homophobic atmosphere prevailing among many and I was one of them. Not trying to change your mind, just asking you to keep an open one. You might see more than you expected.
I've worked around the world for many years and some say as a mercenary. I've had opportunity to see different views, different cultures, and certainly different results. It has tempered my viewpoint on many things and homosexuality is way down on the list of importance.
Best of luck as you travel down the razor blade of life ....
Rocky

 

[LazersGoPEWPEW]

***************
Pickle
And you betray your innocence of history like I did for many years. The most deadly snipers have been women! There is a homophobic atmosphere prevailing among many and I was one of them. Not trying to change your mind, just asking you to keep an open one. You might see more than you expected.
I've worked around the world for many years and some say as a mercenary. I've had opportunity to see different views, different cultures, and certainly different results. It has tempered my viewpoint on many things and homosexuality is way down on the list of importance.
Best of luck as you travel down the razor blade of life ....
Rocky

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree.

Simo Häyhä aka "White Death"

 

[bubblehead]

This entire debate on homosexuals in the military is laughable and only serves to perpetuate, what I feel is, the deepening inclusion of religion into our military and into our government, both of which are fundamentally flawed.

Personally, I neither agree nor disagree with someone's sexual orientation because, frankly, it is none of my f*****g business. And, as long as everyone does their job, I could give two sh*ts what they like to do when they close their bedroom door.

CommodoreMid hit it home with two points: "it goes back to professionalism" and "people not bringing their sexuality into the workplace."

When I was on submarines, I never "openly" talked about my sex life because it was nobody's business and I never "openly" declared that I was, in fact, a heterosexual, because it was nobody's business.

To others that have commented, if a member of the same sex tries to flirt, gaze, or whatever with you and you are not interested or find the behavior offensive, simply let them know that the behavior is offensive, and carry-on smartly. If the behavior persists, handle it through your chain-of-command.

I mean, I know 100% of the men on this board have, at one time or another, been summarily rejected by a woman. So, I am sure you would have no problem responding, in kind, to unwanted advances from others.

Why can't men suck it up and get over their small pee-pee syndrome?

 

[bubblehead]

Marine Core

Dude... It's MARINE CORPS!?