Spice

[Renegade One]

So basically "suck it up" and do what you can regardless of leadership?

Probably not the very best "bumper sticker" I could devise for now over 100 years of Naval Aviation…but most days…yeah…do what you can. The best you can do is all that you can do…until you get the opportunity to do more. Then do more. And so on...

Some day, the good Lord willing and the creek don't rise, all the JOs will surely think you're a douche-lord as well.

"Take no counsel of your fears." ~GEN Colin Powell

 

[lowflier03]

Concur…but I get that kind of response far too often. Nor should folks always devolve to some mindless attack on "sub-par leadership" from "somewhere above". That's a very, very cheap cop-out…from a lot of folks who ought to be working the problem from inside the lifelines.

To give them their due, I'm sure many are. Probably another "silent majority".

I could write a several page thesis on what is wrong and all the stuff we see every day that goes along with it. And yes you do what you can, but there are limits to what you can do and I'll leave it at that. The short version is that we (those of us currently in) aren't allowed to mention by name or title those who fit the "sub-par" leadership descriptor, so instead you hear "somewhere above."

 

[Renegade One]

... And yes you do what you can, but there are limits to what you can do and I'll leave it at that. ...

Understand. But the limits on that expand…over time. Meanwhile, just do what you can. Thanks.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Been there…done that…got the T-shirt.

And that T-shirt is from over a decade spent at war? Yeah. Didn't think so. Not all of us are green behind the ears boots that you think we are. Some of us started our service early enough to know what you saw, and to still see what we see.

For the record - I started off in this gun club in '92. Things have DRASTICALLY changed since then, and have gone to ludicrous/plaid in the last 5-10 years...

 

[phrogdriver]

I'm usually torn over the whole debate over how it was "back then" and how it is now. I generally counsel that shit was just as bad, if not worse at different periods in the past. The garrison militaries between WWI and WWII, the post WWII and post Korea RIFs, the 1970s malaise, etc., are good examples of how the military could objectively be a much worse place than it is today.

The thing that has me concerned, though, is that I think the people serving during those periods recognized that their suffering had a purpose. They were in that figurative case that said "IN CASE OF WAR, BREAK GLASS!" The chickenshit rules, slow promotions, and downsizing would come to an end when it counted, and they knew that then they would be able to serve the way they had always hoped to.

Today, we ARE in a war. A neverending one, in fact, and the bullshit has not only failed to go away, it has gotten deeper. The one thing that is supposed to rudder-steer a military, a major conflict, has not done that. Today, we are a garrison military that fights wars on its off-time. We have cultivated the worst of both worlds. We have the worst of both worlds--martinet garrison BS, plus the pressures and danger of combat deployments and operations.

The premise before was: "Deal with the BS; the important thing is fighting a war." Now, it increasingly seems to be,"Deal with the war; the important thing is the BS."

 

[MasterBates]

Totally agree with Phrogdriver

Sent from a van down by the river via Tapatalk

 

[Swanee]

I'm usually torn over the whole debate over how it was "back then" and how it is now. I generally counsel that shit was just as bad, if not worse at different periods in the past. The garrison militaries between WWI and WWII, the post WWII and post Korea RIFs, the 1970s malaise, etc., are good examples of how the military could objectively be a much worse place than it is today.

The thing that has me concerned, though, is that I think the people serving during those periods recognized that their suffering had a purpose. They were in that figurative case that said "IN CASE OF WAR, BREAK GLASS!" The chickenshit rules, slow promotions, and downsizing would come to an end when it counted, and they knew that then they would be able to serve the way they had always hoped to.

Today, we ARE in a war. A neverending one, in fact, and the bullshit has not only failed to go away, it has gotten deeper. The one thing that is supposed to rudder-steer a military, a major conflict, has not done that. Today, we are a garrison military that fights wars on its off-time. We have cultivated the worst of both worlds. We have the worst of both worlds--martinet garrison BS, plus the pressures and danger of combat deployments and operations.

The premise before was: "Deal with the BS; the important thing is fighting a war." Now, it increasingly seems to be,"Deal with the war; the important thing is the BS."

So what advice do you have for a RAG stud JO who has to ride this out for the next 8 years?

 

[scoolbubba]

Drink heavily and often.

 

[HAL Pilot]

So what advice do you have for a RAG stud JO who has to ride this out for the next 8 years?

Drink heavily and often.

But don't get caught....

 

[Gatordev]

So what advice do you have for a RAG stud JO who has to ride this out for the next 8 years?

Do your job well, qualify on time (whatever that means for your community), and be honest. If in a position where your input on how something is screwed up will be received, give it tactfully. Nothing may happen, but then again, sometimes stuff gets changed. Also, don't be afraid to call something a turd, be it a person, a part, an aircraft, etc.

 

[lowflier03]

Today, we ARE in a war. A neverending one, in fact..."

However again the government doesn't have the moral/testicular/intestinal fortitude to actually call it a war(s) and treat it as such.... We just use that term for TV to sound like we have to be doing what we are. In reality this has all been treated as politically driven policing of the world. Maybe thats the reason the BS never went away and only got thicker...

 

[webmaster]

I'm usually torn over the whole debate over how it was "back then" and how it is now. I generally counsel that shit was just as bad, if not worse at different periods in the past. The garrison militaries between WWI and WWII, the post WWII and post Korea RIFs, the 1970s malaise, etc., are good examples of how the military could objectively be a much worse place than it is today.

The thing that has me concerned, though, is that I think the people serving during those periods recognized that their suffering had a purpose. They were in that figurative case that said "IN CASE OF WAR, BREAK GLASS!" The chickenshit rules, slow promotions, and downsizing would come to an end when it counted, and they knew that then they would be able to serve the way they had always hoped to.

Today, we ARE in a war. A neverending one, in fact, and the bullshit has not only failed to go away, it has gotten deeper. The one thing that is supposed to rudder-steer a military, a major conflict, has not done that. Today, we are a garrison military that fights wars on its off-time. We have cultivated the worst of both worlds. We have the worst of both worlds--martinet garrison BS, plus the pressures and danger of combat deployments and operations.

The premise before was: "Deal with the BS; the important thing is fighting a war." Now, it increasingly seems to be,"Deal with the war; the important thing is the BS."

This is one of the best posts I have seen on Air Warriors, and eloquently sums up many of my own thoughts, and is one of the driving reasons on why I decided to retire, and not get promoted to O5 and put my hat in the ring for Command.

Well said Phrog, when we meet again, first round is on me.

 

[Harrier Dude]

I'm usually torn over the whole debate over how it was "back then" and how it is now. I generally counsel that shit was just as bad, if not worse at different periods in the past. The garrison militaries between WWI and WWII, the post WWII and post Korea RIFs, the 1970s malaise, etc., are good examples of how the military could objectively be a much worse place than it is today.

The thing that has me concerned, though, is that I think the people serving during those periods recognized that their suffering had a purpose. They were in that figurative case that said "IN CASE OF WAR, BREAK GLASS!" The chickenshit rules, slow promotions, and downsizing would come to an end when it counted, and they knew that then they would be able to serve the way they had always hoped to.

Today, we ARE in a war. A neverending one, in fact, and the bullshit has not only failed to go away, it has gotten deeper. The one thing that is supposed to rudder-steer a military, a major conflict, has not done that. Today, we are a garrison military that fights wars on its off-time. We have cultivated the worst of both worlds. We have the worst of both worlds--martinet garrison BS, plus the pressures and danger of combat deployments and operations.

The premise before was: "Deal with the BS; the important thing is fighting a war." Now, it increasingly seems to be,"Deal with the war; the important thing is the BS."

Amen.

We need to re-enable rep from tapatalk.

 

[phrogdriver]

So what advice do you have for a RAG stud JO who has to ride this out for the next 8 years?

Ride out your eight, serve honorably to the best of your ability. There is honestly not much better than being an aviator JO/Company grade.

Then get out and do something that won't suck your soul and leave you wishing for the days before you got promoted.

 

[KBayDog]

Ride out your eight, serve honorably to the best of your ability. There is honestly not much better than being an aviator JO/Company grade.

Then get out and do something that won't suck your soul and leave you wishing for the days before you got promoted.

Edit: In addition to the above, if you are ever given the opportunity to fly something orange and white, get on it like white on rice on a paper plate in the middle of a snowstorm.