split-NFO-Helo? 2P? Black Hole? What?

[Steeljaw Scribe]

Curious, were you literally controlling the aircraft for these approaches or was the FRS syllabus directed towards FO copilots being a second set of eyes/ears/SA, similar to some backseater duties. i'd see learning to go straight and level as one thing and then learning to shoot an approach to the back of the boat without previous pilot training as taxing.

interesting either way.

Hands-on behind the boat - no. Other things like helping with onstation flying, line-up, radio, etc. all the things a "guest" copilot would do - yes. That said, we did try our hand in the simulator (with predictable results) and I had a few shore T&G/landings.

 

[phrogdriver]

Is it still a pinnacle if both back wheels are down?

yes.

 

[phrogpilot73]

yes.

And to expand upon what phrogdriver said, it's the terrain that dictates it's a pinnacle. In flight school, we did pinnacle landings at one of the OLFs, and we put one skid down...

 

[dodge]

yes

And to expand upon what phrogdriver said, it's the terrain that dictates... In flight school, we did pinnacle landings at one of the OLFs, and we put one skid down...

i get so confused with all these phrog driver/pilots around.

when i went through advanced, as i recall, we only got to do pinnacles with both skids down, but indeed terrain wise it was a raised mound with minimal clearance on either side of the helo. the one skid action would have been a little more fun. but then again so would autos on the solo...

 

[phrogpilot73]

i get so confused with all these phrog driver/pilots around.

when i went through advanced, as i recall, we only got to do pinnacles with both skids down, but indeed terrain wise it was a raised mound with minimal clearance on either side of the helo. the one skid action would have been a little more fun. but then again so would autos on the solo...

You're right, the syllabus only calls for both skids landing on the pinnacle... However, I did the flight with a Marine and he asked me if I wanted to try one skid. Who wouldn't want to??

 

[Bird85]

Huh?

There is this magical qual called Naval Co-Pilot. It's a NATOPS designation that essentially quals two-anchor types to fly in the right (helo left) seat of dual-piloted aircraft that otherwise don't have FOs as a normal part of the crew. It originated in the S-3 world and it's used nowadays mostly as a get-around so that FOs can bag hours and legal time at the controls in C-12s, helos, etc.

 

[HH-60H]

There is this magical qual called Naval Co-Pilot. It's a NATOPS designation that essentially quals two-anchor types to fly in the right (helo left) seat of dual-piloted aircraft that otherwise don't have FOs as a normal part of the crew. It originated in the S-3 world and it's used nowadays mostly as a get-around so that FOs can bag hours and legal time at the controls in C-12s, helos, etc.

So it was created just so NFOs could bag hours?

 

[Bird85]

No, I screwed up

I was composing a message and trying to incorporate a quote by Uncle Fester. Those are his words and I was trying to refute what he said.

I then tried again to edit my post and found out I timed out and wasn't logged on.

So, I'm going into self-imposed posting exile until I can figure it out.

OBTW, Uncle Fester is wrong about the Naval Co-Pilot qual. I flew S-3's and C-12's and no where on any of my NATOPS paperwork does it say I obtained a Naval Co-Pilot designation...

 

[Bird85]

I lied about my exile...

flew as an NFO in S-3's and C-12's.

The NFO in helo's skuttlebutt was around 20+ years ago when I was a JO. I doubt it will ever happen...

I will now log off for a few weeks...

 

[zippy]

Hands-on behind the boat - no. Other things like helping with onstation flying, line-up, radio, etc. all the things a "guest" copilot would do - yes. That said, we did try our hand in the simulator (with predictable results) and I had a few shore T&G/landings.

Interestingly enough this idea has been (again) brought up to one of the VP admirals making his rounds to the squadrons within the past year... Due to the shortages of pilots (2Ps and 3Ps) caused by the manning reduction and the effect the hours crunch is having on upgraders getting flight time and everyone getting PPT, it was suggested that on some flights NFO's fly as as No Ps (IE transits and other non-critical phases of flight) with qualified 2ps or PPCs in the other seat.

I don't think anything will come of it, but some of the points made did have some merit.

 

[Uncle Fester]

OBTW, Uncle Fester is wrong about the Naval Co-Pilot qual. I flew S-3's and C-12's and no where on any of my NATOPS paperwork does it say I obtained a Naval Co-Pilot designation...

Maybe it doesn't, but I bet you could have got the qual. A bud of mine flies C-12s now and he's been on some of the syllabus hops to qual FO's. There's not much to it, but you have to specifically go for the qual, it's not an auto-bestow. Couldn't tell you how the S-3 process works/worked, but I've heard it was done. And I've likewise heard about FO's getting the qual to legally fly left-seat in helos.

Not strictly a bag-ex qual. You can legally bag hours without any quals. The qual is more so that you can legally log the stick time and you're NATOPS legal to be on the mission crew.

 

[HH-60H]

Maybe it doesn't, but I bet you could have got the qual. A bud of mine flies C-12s now and he's been on some of the syllabus hops to qual FO's. There's not much to it, but you have to specifically go for the qual, it's not an auto-bestow. Couldn't tell you how the S-3 process works/worked, but I've heard it was done. And I've likewise heard about FO's getting the qual to legally fly left-seat in helos.

Not strictly a bag-ex qual. You can legally bag hours without any quals. The qual is more so that you can legally log the stick time and you're NATOPS legal to be on the mission crew.

I am curious about this qual. What instruction governs it? I searched through 3710 for the word "copilot" with no luck. I don't recall it in the 60F NATOPS, but I haven't looked at it in quite awhile. I think it would be an interesting tool for an HS squadron to keep in its back pocket.

 

[phrogpilot73]

I am curious about this qual. What instruction governs it? I searched through 3710 for the word "copilot" with no luck. I don't recall it in the 60F NATOPS, but I haven't looked at it in quite awhile. I think it would be an interesting tool for an HS squadron to keep in its back pocket.

There is but one copilot in the CH-46E books... And that is an H2P - we also don't have PQM...