Story: Pilots grounded for good after low flyover

[phrogpilot73]

Reasons we have restrictions for flybys/airshows...also reasons why being anasshat about those regulations gets you into deep shit with the boss...

That first video goes WELL beyond why we have restrictions... It's not like this guy had the "spotless" record, and this was his one transgression... He was WELL known among his peers about his flat-hatting, and all the JO's in the squadron refused to fly with him. If I remember correctly, the only person who would fly with him was the XO. That was his last flight as the CO, and his family was in the audience. He should have been grounded earlier. However, the Navy guys in question fucked up, but it was their only fuck up in their career. Yup. Zero-Tolerance is among us and real.

Oh, and to embed now, you have to click the filmstrip icon and paste in the YouTube link now.

 

[picklesuit]

That first video goes WELL beyond why we have restrictions... It's not like this guy had the "spotless" record, and this was his one transgression... He was WELL known among his peers about his flat-hatting, and all the JO's in the squadron refused to fly with him. If I remember correctly, the only person who would fly with him was the XO. That was his last flight as the CO, and his family was in the audience. He should have been grounded earlier. However, the Navy guys in question fucked up, but it was their only fuck up in their career. Yup. Zero-Tolerance is among us and real.

Oh, and to embed now, you have to click the filmstrip icon and paste in the YouTube link now.

I agree completely...(I almost posted the 8 minute clip of the Buff pilot being a repeated douchebag) and we ARE in a zero tolerence Navy...unfortunately some of that may be a product of the 24 hour news cycle, greater attention to minutia by the internets (people like us) and a propensity for armchair quarterbacking on an obsessive level...we just can't bury stupid shit very easily anymore...

However, this was a pretty blatant disregard for the regs, and it only takes once for us to kill an asston of civilians in a stadium...then NOONE will get to do a flyby...

 

[phrogpilot73]

However, this was a pretty blatant disregard for the regs, and it only takes once for us to kill an asston of civilians in a stadium...then NOONE will get to do a flyby...

Blatant disregard? Yes. Anything happen? No. Answer up to it? Yes. Seems to me that you have pilots with integrity. Guess that's a bad thing.

Helo pilots ROUTINELY do lower fly overs (evidence below), maybe it's because we can land anywhere. The fact that most people (except the father) wanted to roast the F/A-18 pilot who ejected at the last moment and killed an entire family should indicate why this happens...

 

[phrogdriver]

I'm not sure what the difference between 500' and 1000' is going to buy you. Obviously SOME hard-deck is necessary to avoid an "oops" miscalculation--e.g. a guy diving down and misjudging his recovery.

The altitude difference between 500' and 1000' for a straight-and-level flyover? I don't know if it buys anything. Assuming it's to protect against a catastrophic failure (say engine or transmission) causing an a/c to crash into the stands, a fixed wing aircraft would likely at least clear the opposite end of the stadium if it happened at the worst possible time (just prior to passing over the event), whether at 500' or 1000'. You know it's crashing, no matter what. At the other extreme, a helo can land anywhere, but if that anywhere ends up being an autorotation into the opposite balcony, it's not buying anything. At 1000' you could definitely auto clear of a stadium, and maybe just ruin someone's paintjob in the parking lot. At 500', maybe not.

Just idle speculation...

 

[Flash]

That first video goes WELL beyond why we have restrictions... It's not like this guy had the "spotless" record, and this was his one transgression... He was WELL known among his peers about his flat-hatting, and all the JO's in the squadron refused to fly with him. If I remember correctly, the only person who would fly with him was the XO. That was his last flight as the CO, and his family was in the audience. He should have been grounded earlier. However, the Navy guys in question fucked up, but it was their only fuck up in their career. Yup. Zero-Tolerance is among us and real.

You got a few of the details wrong, here is a good link with the whole story (Wikipedia has a page too for the quick and dirty). The pilot-in-command was the chief of the stan-eval branch at the resident wing who had a well known history of flat-hatting that was well known among the community at large and a succession of bosses who gave him a lot leeway even when he blatantly and repeatedly broke the rules (a few were canned after the accident). The squadron CO on board had forbid anyone from his squadron from flying with the pilot in question unless he too was on board and was on the flight himself with two other guys, one was a Colonel who was doing his fini flight with his family there watching. The flight was an air show practice.

 

[Brett327]

I remember in primary that while in parade, you are eyes on lead at ALL times.

That's because you were in primary and didn't know WTF you were doing. Even if he wasn't occasionally glancing up at his HUD (highly doubtful), a guy with that level of experience can tell the difference between 1000 ft and 300 using peripheral vision.

You can't feign ignorance and expect a flag level aviator to buy it - THAT was their most egregious lapse in judgment.

Brett

 

[Clux4]

You got a few of the details wrong, here is a good link with the whole story (Wikipedia has a page too for the quick and dirty). The pilot-in-command was the chief of the stan-eval branch at the resident wing who had a well known history of flat-hatting that was well known among the community at large and a succession of bosses who gave him a lot leeway even when he blatantly and repeatedly broke the rules (a few were canned after the accident). The squadron CO on board had forbid anyone from his squadron from flying with the pilot in question unless he too was on board and was on the flight himself with two other guys, one was a Colonel who was doing his fini flight with his family there watching. The flight was an air show practice.

No way, how could Phrogpilot73 be wrong. He knows EVERYTHING. You can't use Wikipedia, it is not a reliable source.

 

[FENIAN]

You got a few of the details wrong, here is a good link with the whole story... The flight was an air show practice.

Not sure who wrote that article, but it was pretty damn good. It kind of shines moral dilemma light on something like this.

 

[navymic]

The 1000' is an FAA restriction, as is the 250 knot restriction. Numerous reasons,
1) breaking windows... iffy?
2) people claiming you broke their windows... yes!
3) noise complaints... a Prowler holding over Redmond for a Seahawks fly-by generated 100s of complaints.
4) it scares people... we had military folk complaining when my squadron had one of these.
5) it makes babies cry... literally
6) FAA can't legally clear you any lower/faster.
7) Safety...

 

[HAL Pilot]

No way, how could Phrogpilot73 be wrong. He knows EVERYTHING. You can't use Wikipedia, it is not a reliable source.

He knows a hell of a lot more about aviation than you.

Don't you have some toilet paper rolls to count?

 

[Python]

If those 2 lost their wings for being too low, does that mean this guy went to jail?

 

[phrogpilot73]

You got a few of the details wrong, here is a good link with the whole story (Wikipedia has a page too for the quick and dirty). The pilot-in-command was the chief of the stan-eval branch at the resident wing who had a well known history of flat-hatting that was well known among the community at large and a succession of bosses who gave him a lot leeway even when he blatantly and repeatedly broke the rules (a few were canned after the accident). The squadron CO on board had forbid anyone from his squadron from flying with the pilot in question unless he too was on board and was on the flight himself with two other guys, one was a Colonel who was doing his fini flight with his family there watching. The flight was an air show practice.

Yeah, I was too lazy to look it up - but I got the jist. We discussed it during a CRM brief many moons ago. Either way, the guy never should have been flying, and he CERTAINLY shouldn't have been the chief stan pilot...

No way, how could Phrogpilot73 be wrong. He knows EVERYTHING. You can't use Wikipedia, it is not a reliable source.

That's why I started it with "if I remember correctly." I didn't. But then again, you've probably discussed that mishap in detail in SuppO school, didn't you?

He knows a hell of a lot more about aviation than you.

Don't you have some toilet paper rolls to count?

Actually counting TP rolls would be his PRIMARY MOS. Lord knows what he's doing at his B-Billet...

If those 2 lost their wings for being too low, does that mean this guy went to jail?

Nope. I met that guy, he's friends with the people that sit in front of me at Navy football games. He was grounded for two weeks and than he retired. The way he put it - "I knew it was going to be my last flight before retirement, the squadron didn't." He also said that as he climbed out and contacted ATC, his first question was "who am I supposed to call when I land?"

 

[NAVYBM2]

That's a good questions, because I can tell from your various posts that you're a little lacking in the maturity that is normally expected of pilots, particularly those who are priors. Naval Aviation is filled will rules. Some are arbitrary and ridiculous, but you don't get to decide which rules you want to abide by - that's the price of playing in this game. The "draconian" restrictions on fly-by operations are the way they are for two reasons. First, 9/11 changed a lot of things. Second, jackasses like this are blatantly violating the established rules. It's been done in every community, including mine. These two lost their wings because they tried to BS CNAL - nice try. Thanks for playing.

Brett

Lacking Maturity? Why? Because I speak my mind? Come on now, I am just saying what everybody else is thinking. I didn't say that I am not going to follow rules when I fly (if I fly). I understand perfectly well what happens when you don't abide by the rules! When I was active I was a model sailor, it got me advanced quick and I made a name for myself within my command; never broke a rule or got in trouble, but that doesn't mean that I had/have to like it, which was exactly my point.

 

[Brett327]

Lacking Maturity? Why? Because I speak my mind?

Precisely. More often than not as an officer, you get to toe the line and keep your opinions to yourself. At any rate, what's your beef with the outcome for these aviators? I don't get the outrage.

Brett

 

[zab1001]

Come on now, I am just saying what everybody else is thinkin.

Everybody else? Hardly.