So you're saying a pilot who may be perfectly capable of flying something else but couldn't cut it in jets should not fly anything and waste the training invested in him because some helo or P-3 guys may get their feelings hurt?
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Story: Pilots grounded for good after low flyover
- Thread starter hokifire
- Start date
So you're saying a pilot who may be perfectly capable of flying something else but couldn't cut it in jets should not fly anything and waste the training invested in him because some helo or P-3 guys may get their feelings hurt?
How is that more degrading than the fact that you have to be statistically above average in primary to select tailhook?
That is NOT what they are saying. What "they" are saying is they do NOT trust the person to be Pilot in Command in an aircraft in which only one pilot is at controls. You'll note the other options are all dual control platforms, which doesn't make any qualitatively judgement as you suggest; it simply means the "banished" one will always have someone else who can take the controls whether it be for an inadequacy in motor-skills or judgement.
The transition card is not usually used when trust is the issue.
It is primarily used when an individual has trouble around the boat. If an aviator has problems with his boarding rate, they may send him to a land based platform. They don't want to 'waste' that trainied and otherwise sound pilot, just because he has a particular problem with that specific skill. If the pilot is not otherwise sound (in otherwords, poor), they usually find a completely different opportunity to excel in the Navy.
This was also used for a feller who broke his back and was no longer ejection seat qualified, but otherwise fit for duty.
It is primarily used when an individual has trouble around the boat. If an aviator has problems with his boarding rate, they may send him to a land based platform. They don't want to 'waste' that trainied and otherwise sound pilot, just because he has a particular problem with that specific skill. If the pilot is not otherwise sound (in otherwords, poor), they usually find a completely different opportunity to excel in the Navy.
This was also used for a feller who broke his back and was no longer ejection seat qualified, but otherwise fit for duty.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
Actually, you have to be statistically above average in a syllabus designed to evaluate your abilities to be a single seat aviator.
Depends on how you define trust (ie in flying ability or integrity), but perhaps trust should be resigned to latter and "confidence" in the former.
I'm a P-3 pilot so I think I can speak to the feelings of my butt...I, personally, think most of the Jet pipeline pilots (attrited to P-3's and in Primary) I have flown with are really good at their job.. Motivated, good sticks, and have seen outside the suck that is P-3 NATOPS minutia...I will also say that I have no qualms stating that landing on a boat is harder than landing on a runway, and their room for error is much smaller than mine...am I selling out my platform? No...are the standards to be a jet pilot higher than those to be a P-3 Pilot? Yes...not only is the guy the only stick in a single seater, he may also be the only decision-maker on when to pull the trigger (or pickle, or button...however you guys drop bombs) and will be running checklists, weaponeering, and ensuring he is within ROE...I have a Tacco and a Nav for that...
I make up for my shortcomings as an Aviator in the bed and at the bar, far exceeding the accomplishments of any of those pointy nosed guys...and for that I have no regrets...
Pickle
I make up for my shortcomings as an Aviator in the bed and at the bar, far exceeding the accomplishments of any of those pointy nosed guys...and for that I have no regrets...
Pickle
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
I've done several flybys, both for NASCAR races and more impromptu "panel checks" for the guys on the ground or at the boat. The key is not to be an idiot. Have some SA on where you are.
FWIW....I talked directly to the head of the Richmond office of the FAA prior to doing one of the flybys, and speed was the least of his concerns. Altitude was his biggest concern by far. His exact quote to me was "I don't care how fast you go, but whatever you do, be above 1000' AGL".
That sparked a 15 minute discussion between us about the "250 knot rule". I had it hammered into my head in flight school that the speed limit was 250 below 10,000'. IP's would competely lose their minds if you were 10 knots fast on an approach thinking that they would get violated.
The truth is that while there IS a 250 knot speed restriction below 10,000', if your TMS manual stipulates a higher speed, then you can use that. Further, if you're talking to ATC and request higher speed, most likely they'll give it to you on the spot. The FAA cares a lot more about altitude than speed. They're not going to go through the asspain of trying to get you violated for being at a tactical airspeed (350-500ish?) in the break or during a flyby. If you bust an altitude, you'll probably hear about it.
Does this mean that you can come into the break at 5 bills at LAX? Probably not. SA and good judegement should preclude that.
Having said all of that, if the MILITARY gives you an order not to do something, getting a flight violation is the least of your concerns. This is the day and age where every yahoo has a video camera on them at all times. What they shoot WILL be on the interwebs within the hour. Compounding the problem, and against popular belief, field and general grade officers can and do peruse these interwebs regularly. They will see said video either that day, or the next at the latest.
Follow these rules:
1) Don't be an idiot.
2) Have some SA
3) If you get busted violating the above rules, be a man and tell the truth. Lying will only make things worse.
FWIW....I talked directly to the head of the Richmond office of the FAA prior to doing one of the flybys, and speed was the least of his concerns. Altitude was his biggest concern by far. His exact quote to me was "I don't care how fast you go, but whatever you do, be above 1000' AGL".
That sparked a 15 minute discussion between us about the "250 knot rule". I had it hammered into my head in flight school that the speed limit was 250 below 10,000'. IP's would competely lose their minds if you were 10 knots fast on an approach thinking that they would get violated.
The truth is that while there IS a 250 knot speed restriction below 10,000', if your TMS manual stipulates a higher speed, then you can use that. Further, if you're talking to ATC and request higher speed, most likely they'll give it to you on the spot. The FAA cares a lot more about altitude than speed. They're not going to go through the asspain of trying to get you violated for being at a tactical airspeed (350-500ish?) in the break or during a flyby. If you bust an altitude, you'll probably hear about it.
Does this mean that you can come into the break at 5 bills at LAX? Probably not. SA and good judegement should preclude that.
Having said all of that, if the MILITARY gives you an order not to do something, getting a flight violation is the least of your concerns. This is the day and age where every yahoo has a video camera on them at all times. What they shoot WILL be on the interwebs within the hour. Compounding the problem, and against popular belief, field and general grade officers can and do peruse these interwebs regularly. They will see said video either that day, or the next at the latest.
Follow these rules:
1) Don't be an idiot.
2) Have some SA
3) If you get busted violating the above rules, be a man and tell the truth. Lying will only make things worse.
magnetfreezer
Well-Known Member
TAS waivers seem to be relatively common on the ACC side - many standard B-1 passes are 0.9-0.95 mach. From what I've seen altitude waivers sometimes happen as well. Is the Big Navy restriction the admirals erring on the conservative side or are units allowed to exceed it as long as they get the appropriate FAA waivers. '2' on not being stupid on camera. There are several people who could stand to learn that for off duty ground ops as well.
Like Harrier Dude, I have done several flyovers and like he mentioned, we contacted the local FAA rep, told them what we were going to do... in turn, the FAA dude told us what he expected and the biggest was the altitude. They also gave us the direct number to the controlling agency (always a TRACON dude) and on most occasions actually talked with the dude who would be controlling us that day. Simple planning and not much of a redass. We flew 300kts with no FAA or Marine Corps waivers but definitely maintained 1k above the stadiums & track.
Too bad for these guys... but, if you're willing to break the rules, you'd better be ready to suffer the consequences. I think if they didn't lie, they'd still be flying. Naïve or just retarded to think that higher, who signed off on the flyover request, wouldn't be watching the thing on TV or looking for it on the internet.
For you "youngens'...don't lie, just nutt up & fess up ... don't be a little bitch either, continue to push the grey area, just don't be retarded about it...
SF
Too bad for these guys... but, if you're willing to break the rules, you'd better be ready to suffer the consequences. I think if they didn't lie, they'd still be flying. Naïve or just retarded to think that higher, who signed off on the flyover request, wouldn't be watching the thing on TV or looking for it on the internet.
For you "youngens'...don't lie, just nutt up & fess up ... don't be a little bitch either, continue to push the grey area, just don't be retarded about it...
SF
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
I go down to 50'/120kts all the time...
