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THE VP DEBATE: Thursday Night Fights, Round 1 ... WHO "WON" .. ???

Win, Lose, or Draw ... Who's your "Daddy"???

  • Senator Biden

    Votes: 30 35.3%
  • Governor Palin

    Votes: 39 45.9%
  • Neither won ... it's a draw

    Votes: 16 18.8%

  • Total voters
    85
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HercDriver

Idiots w/boats = job security
pilot
Super Moderator
Both camps knew about it. It is being brought up now and trumped up by some in order to:

1. Put the moderator on the defensive
2. Spin any loss by Palin as the fault of the moderator
3. Make more of the talk about the moderator, vice the candidate, to control the narrative.

Believe it.
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
Both camps knew about it....
You might be right: but the McCain campaign maintains they only knew about it on Tuesday, i.e., yesterday. It must be yesterday as I took the garbage out this morning, so that means today is Wednesday ...

Sooooooooooo ... I guess that means they are lying, yea-as ??? And you would KNOW this ... that they are "lying" ... that they "knew about it" .... how ??? :)
 

OUSOONER

Crusty Shellback
pilot
Do I need to state a reason for opinions?

-Ok you twisted my leg. I think he was a terrible VP pick to start off. Hillary would have been the smart choice. I was very glad that he didn't choice Hillary because I want McCain to win (what did she get, about 18 million preliminary votes?). Also, it magnifies that Obama is trying to make up for his large weaknesses: foreign relations and overall experience. That is a big mistake for someone trying to exemplify change -especilally change from the regular DC politics... --> Now to get to what I don't specifically like about Biden: his experience is not what I would consider "good" experience since he is not so much for national defense (voted against missile shields every time over the last 20 something years) and his foreign relation experience is overblown (I consider him well traveled but not a good diplomat or a stern leading type).

All in all, we are not voting for the VPs and they only slightly factor in people's decisions; however, by choosing Biden, Obama has basically "told me" that he is trying to make up for his very minimal experience and foreign know-how by selecting a very boring man who is still not as good as McCain in either aspect. E.g., it was a bad choice that will cost Obama the election...


Ok, so what I get from this, you are voting strictly on who has the better foreign policy?

Let's pretend, for a second..that I concede to you that Obama is VERY inept in foreign policy and picked Biden to fill that shortcoming (which I don't think is a bad strategy to actually pick a running mate to complement your strengths and weaknesses).....

You have McCain, who said himself, that he isn't an " expert on the economy". As a Republican who is TRYING to find a reason to vote McCain..help me sleep better at night and tell me that McCain picked Palin to assist him in office and give him advice on the economy from her extensive expertise...:sleep_125

If what you say is true...at least Obama acknowledges his weakness and chose someone who will at least help strengthen that deficiency.

Not that I really care, but seriously, I was expecting character assassination at the very least, when "I don't like anything abou Biden" is your opener...

Figured you personally hated the guy for some reason. :)

Agreed, I feel kind of let down, I was expecting a bastard Filipino child and hush money to keep the mom quiet or something...at the least.
 

red_ryder

Well-Known Member
None
Will the moderator really matter that much? I'm sorry friends, but no amount of coaching is going to cut it. She couldn't even handle Katie Couric. This is going to be about damage control. This is going to be a slaughter.

EDIT: Turned out this was completely wrong. I am surprised and impressed.
 

LazersGoPEWPEW

4500rpm
Contributor
Ok, so what I get from this, you are voting strictly on who has the better foreign policy?

Let's pretend, for a second..that I concede to you that Obama is VERY inept in foreign policy and picked Biden to fill that shortcoming (which I don't think is a bad strategy to actually pick a running mate to complement your strengths and weaknesses).....

You have McCain, who said himself, that he isn't an " expert on the economy". As a Republican who is TRYING to find a reason to vote McCain..help me sleep better at night and tell me that McCain picked Palin to assist him in office and give him advice on the economy from her extensive expertise...:sleep_125

If what you say is true...at least Obama acknowledges his weakness and chose someone who will at least help strengthen that deficiency.

There is a reason a President selects a cabinet for himself. The VP is not going to have as much influence on the economic decisions because well quite frankly unless they have their doctorate in Economics they probably shouldn't be dealing with it. As far as foreign policy. Yea it's great when you have a President who's a pro at it....and sometimes it's not so great.

That's why we have a Secretary of State. They help the President with Foreign Policy....unless the President feels that he must be in the front in that arena.

Acknowledging a severe weakness is fine. Acknowledging it to 300 million Americans on public television....maybe not so much.

As far as McCain's ability to lead and make things happen. The story of VA-174 comes to mind. Having heard it from the mouth of a man who was under his command, there is no doubt in my mind that McCain can lead the country back to progression.

I really don't have anything for Obama and I've looked. I don't see anything from him that proves to me he can lead a country of 300 million people through thick and thin. I don't trust him to my CNC.

Regardless of what the media does say or whatnot....it's the people who vote. We will decide. Whatever comes is gonna come whether I or any of us like it or not.

Drive on.
 

eddie

Working Plan B
Contributor
You have McCain, who said himself, that he isn't an " expert on the economy". As a Republican who is TRYING to find a reason to vote McCain..help me sleep better at night and tell me that McCain picked Palin to assist him in office and give him advice on the economy from her extensive expertise...:sleep_125

He didn't.

But here's a potenial reason for you: it's probably their basic policy opinion you should be voting on rather than their level of expertise. Obama (nor McCain) is not going to sit there and wizKid up a plan to "fix" the economy. More than likely they'll push / veto a plan of action based on their most basic policy inclinations.

I don't give a crap about experience. I (in my long history of voting :)) vote on policy.
 

OUSOONER

Crusty Shellback
pilot
He didn't.

But here's a potenial reason for you: it's probably their basic policy opinion you should be voting on rather than their level of expertise. Obama (nor McCain) is not going to sit there and wizKid up a plan to "fix" the economy. More than likely they'll push / veto a plan of action based on their most basic policy inclinations.

I don't give a crap about experience. I (in my long history of voting :)) vote on policy.

I vote on policy as well...but I think the mess we are in will take longer than 4 years to clean up, beyond the first administration's term.
 

Someday

Dude?
Anything short of a complete disaster would be a success for Palin.

I don't think I've missed an episode of Washington Week this year. Gwen Ifill is totally in the tank for Barak Obama.

With that said, she is the consummate professional and has a superb reputation in the beltway. I fully expect her to be impartial at the debate and both parties agree with me. She was picked a moderator for a reason. All this talk of her forthcoming book is just 24 news channel spin. There are the sheep and the shepherds in this world. If you quote Beck, O'Reilly or Olbermann you are a sheep.


I voted for John McCain in the primaries during the 2000 election. I was undecided this election until he picked Sarah Palin. She is not qualified to be president and that is the principle requirement of a vice-president. McCain's staggering lack of judgement has left me disillusioned. His one chance at winning was being his maverick self, but he sadly left principles behind and is now just pandering to the far right of his party. I believed him when he said he'd rather win the war and lose the election, but picking Palin makes me wonder?

Who here actually believes she could be a good president? Serious people do not take her seriously.

SD
 

jorgelito

PRO-REC INTEL
I think people are underestimating Palin. She may not come off as a intellectual debate league champion but she did very well in her gubernatorial debates.

Biden is at a disadvantage as well. If he comes off as too gruff or aggressive in attacking Palin, it will not look good at all. There can be a negative image associated with it: EX: the mean plagiarizing Biden taking cheap shots at the nice, mama governor. Biden has to tread very carefully here.

Since expectations are so low for Palin, she has an excellent opportunity to do very well and surprise everyone. One of her great strengths is charm which is also an asset to leadership and in a televised debate, her charm could be a great difference maker.

Lastly, the VP debate may or may not be all that important in the grand scheme of things. Dan Quayle didn't do very well vice Lloyd Bentsen but Bush/Quayle won anyways.

In any case, I don't think it's a slam dunk for Biden.
 

BullGator

Active Member
Ok, so what I get from this, you are voting strictly on who has the better foreign policy?

Let's pretend, for a second..that I concede to you that Obama is VERY inept in foreign policy and picked Biden to fill that shortcoming (which I don't think is a bad strategy to actually pick a running mate to complement your strengths and weaknesses).....

You have McCain, who said himself, that he isn't an " expert on the economy". As a Republican who is TRYING to find a reason to vote McCain..help me sleep better at night and tell me that McCain picked Palin to assist him in office and give him advice on the economy from her extensive expertise...:sleep_125

If what you say is true...at least Obama acknowledges his weakness and chose someone who will at least help strengthen that deficiency.
Yawn. I said that McCain was very strong in those 2 major weaknesses of Obama's. If you want a president to pick a VP to tell him what to do in those VERY important matters (i.e. dealing with N Korea, Iran, Huego Chavez, ect) that's fine. I'm not trying to sway your vote; I could care less, it's your decision. -Trying to change someone's political opinions is like trying to change their religion, no less over the internet. I for one, though, will vote for the man that is actually capable of dealing with foreign matters on his own, and to that effect is better at doing so than Biden and Obama combined, IMO.

So you think that Obama is an expert in economics or the economy? Haha, that's a good argument: expanding our government, and socializing medicine among other things sounds great! Obama would be far worse for our economy than McCain, IMO. He didn't pick Palin to help him on the economy(-and I never said anything like that), unless you mean on energy's future (natural gas, drilling, pipelines and so forth). As Lazers said, there are economic experts that help him with that type of issue, as they would for Obama too (except in his case the whole legislative and executive branches would be democrats and he would ruin our economy with socialism and much more "big" gov't).

I am an independent. I vote how I choose to. IMO, Obama is nothing more than an good orator who slid his way into politics (very shady Chicago deals, then later in the senate only voting "present") specifically to run as a presidential candidate and is now only playing off of the liberal populations' hate for Bush. That got him this far, but I honestly don't think he will win it. McCain on the other hand is a proven leader and a courageous man that has already displayed his love for our country and his desire to fix things responsibly. You asked me to explain before, and I did again. --I guess you just wanted an argument. Again, yawn.
 

OUSOONER

Crusty Shellback
pilot
Yawn. I said that McCain was very strong in those 2 major weaknesses of Obama's. If you want a president to pick a VP to tell him what to do in those VERY important matters (i.e. dealing with N Korea, Iran, Huego Chavez, ect) that's fine. I'm not trying to sway your vote; I could care less, it's your decision. -Trying to change someone's political opinions is like trying to change their religion, no less over the internet. I for one, though, will vote for the man that is actually capable of dealing with foreign matters on his own, and to that effect is better at doing so than Biden and Obama combined, IMO.

So you think that Obama is an expert in economics or the economy? Haha, that's a good argument: expanding our government, and socializing medicine among other things sounds great! Obama would be far worse for our economy than McCain, IMO. He didn't pick Palin to help him on the economy(-and I never said anything like that), unless you mean on energy's future (natural gas, drilling, pipelines and so forth). As Lazers said, there are economic experts that help him with that type of issue, as they would for Obama too (except in his case the whole legislative and executive branches would be democrats and he would ruin our economy with socialism and much more "big" gov't).

I am an independent. I vote how I choose to. IMO, Obama is nothing more than an good orator who slid his way into politics (very shady Chicago deals, then later in the senate only voting "present") specifically to run as a presidential candidate and is now only playing off of the liberal populations' hate for Bush. That got him this far, but I honestly don't think he will win it. McCain on the other hand is a proven leader and a courageous man that has already displayed his love for our country and his desire to fix things responsibly. You asked me to explain before, and I did again. --I guess you just wanted an argument. Again, yawn.


I was not baiting you into an argument. I just figured you had some personal vendetta with Biden, I was curious to hear why. Then when you gave me a response to the tune of Obama's lack of experience on foreign policy...I felt the need to remind you of McCain's shortcomings.
 

QuagmireMcGuire

Kinder and Gentler
ACTUALLY ... round 2 in the greater scheme of things this political season ... but I think you get the picture. :)

So who "won"; and mebbe even "why" ??? Be nice, now ....


JoeBidenLrg.jpg
pabstboxersm3.jpg
Gov-Palin-2006_web.jpg
robinsongavilanqd3.jpg

VP candidates debate?
 

raptor10

Philosoraptor
Contributor
To succeed in this debate Palin must come out looking like a professor of foreign policy - which is the biggest charge levied against her (her lack of foreign policy experience). She has to be spouting out those details of geopolitics that show that she has been boning up on the issues, and then she has to fill the gap in what she doesn't know by showing that she has the philosophical underpinnings to respond to the unknowns of the Presidency, and that her fundamental assumptions are better in every regard than Obama and Biden.

Second she has to be willing to answer the hard questions about her family, actually not only willing but encouraging of those questions. She has to talk to about her daughters pregnancy and how her daughter "choose" to keep the child - but - that keeping the child was the only ethical choice and why she believes so strongly in fighting for the rights of unborn babies (and segue that into fighting for the rights of all American's).

She has to fight her opponent on what is perceived to be the weakness of the democratic party - national defense. Sen. Biden - How are you going to bring my son home, with an aura of defeat, or victoriously - how are you going to help my son complete his mission - what have you done for the troops while in office - blah, blah, blah.

To win, VP Nominee Palin has to come out looking like she is capable of being the Presidential nominee, running against Obama and not Biden, to do that she has to give the nation a Lifetime original movie.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
She has to fight her opponent on what is perceived to be the weakness of the democratic party - national defense. Sen. Biden - How are you going to bring my son home, with an aura of defeat, or victoriously - how are you going to help my son complete his mission - what have you done for the troops while in office - blah, blah, blah.

What about his son?
 
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