This morning's A-pool idiocy...PT Policy and O vs PO open debate

[statesman]

Just to clear up, AM2 isnt leading PT he just works in Flight Management/student control. Apparently he has positional authority over the A Pool ensigns because of his job description in the office.

Why he was there today is beyond me, but his comments were mostly geared at trying to explain to all the young officers that we arent 'better' than enlisted people.

 

[eyes2theskies]

Mannnn... anybody else frustrated that these people have been chosen for these positions and are crapping on their own opportunities? There are at least a hundred other kids, drooling over Officer positions in the Navy, dreaming of being where these bickering knuckleheads are, reading this and thinking, "how could you be so ignorant?!" ... or maybe just one kid in Cali wh doesn't know much about life in the Navy.

alright... here comes a new thread.

 

[Rocketman]

Think it's more a generational thing than anything IMHO

Forever kind of covers how long ago I was a Marine NCO ('75 to '78) but I'll at least comment from my personel experience on the green side.

I agree that it sounds like a generational thing. I have to say I don't think I've ever witness anything like is being described here. Not between an officer and an enlisted man. Hell not between anybody in a formation. I can't even imagine how it could happen on either the E's or O's side.

To pontificate a bit, even if it happens only once in a blue moon there is def something wrong if some of the things I hear about A Pool formations are true. Officers standing formation drunk or with studs in their tongues? Not even showing up for formation? I doesn't matter if it happens to be a "bull shit" formation. It's still a formation.

Officers MUST maintain a higher standard. Short of an enlisted guy taking a swing at you, as an officer you HAVE to stay above this kind of shit. Otherwise the whole thing falls apart.

 

[FlyinRock]

This has turned into an interesting thread and I hope the JO's are reading and absorbing. Traditionally in the USMC, and in some ways in the Navy, the JO's are encouraged to pay attention to thier Gunnys and Chiefs. There are those who serve and those who are served. So where do you fall in that equation?
There are those who lead, and those who follow. Where do you fall in that equation?
If you want to be a leader, do you plan to do so by dictate, or by example? If you are a follower it doesn't seem to matter that much but even so, I'd bet you will follow a good leader rather than a bad one? Do you have a choice?
As officers, you are expected to lead. As NCO's you are expected to lead. How you do it will be graded by those above and below you. I'm of the school that if I am to lead, I want to do it from up front and demonstrate what it is I expect from those who follow.
I respect those who can do it better than me and try to learn from them. If I can better myself by their example I'm going to try to match them. If I can set a better example, I will and hope it is motivating enough they will try to emulate me and even excel me. If that happens I am a double winner. WE ALL WIN.
The military is a very competitive arena but is also a team effort and the team will always triumph over an individual. How simple is that?
Semper Fi
Rocky
USMC DI 58/59

 

[bert]

Just to ask a stupid question: what were the rest of the A-poolers doing when this went down? Whether it was the petty officer or the ensign (or both, if that was the case) that was behaving badly, every officer there had the obligation to step if the situation "devolved" (if that isn't a word, it ought to be).

I'm not saying anybody could get two guys screaming at each other to see reason, but at a minimum they ought to have separated them if that was the case.

 

[squorch2]

Until I get a reasonably straightforward story about what went down, I'm gonna withhold judgment.

 

[BarrettRC8]

For any old salts reading this thread, please answer. Has this been a problem forever? Disrespect, un-officer like qualitities, etc etc. Is the trend of being a D-bag officer a new one or one that's been around for a while? I've noticed a decay in the overall quality of new JO's, even in the short time I've been in the Navy, but it's military wide it seems. The commissioning sources need a serious overhaul. They've been softened up so badly over the years, for various political reasons, that the officers they're producing are pretty pathetic. PT, respect, tradition, nothing is what it was of the older days and the products of these sources is suffering. I'm talking across the board, from academies to ROTC units. Does anyone else feel like there's a correlation to the decline of the comm sources and the shitty JO's we see in the fleet today?

How much experience do you have with all the other services to make a statement like that?

 

[Sky-Pig]

Don't just sit there

Interesting read.

I have a crazy suggestion, though. Learn from this situation...and fast.

Tomorrow, either the senior ENS/LTJG or someone not afraid to speak in public should hold everyone after the muster and discuss what happened...both the good and the bad...in a level-headed and professional manner.

It's one thing to recognize a bad situation, another to complain about it and shake your head, and yet another to try to turn it to your advantage. It's not a lesson learned if you don't actually learn anything.

I'd also recommend talking with the NASC officers about sitting down with the PO2 to review his performance...

This all goes back to the best advice I ever received about being an officer:

"Don't just come to me with a problem, come to me with a solution, too"

 

[DocT]

Who is actually leading the Pool PT sessions?

 

[bubblehead]

* deleted *

 

[swim13]

I hope this clears things up a bit.

Yesterday, A-Pool started PTing with the Aircrew. To be brutally honest, we got killed. We all were obviously not able to keep up with Aircrew.

Today at muster the Student Control Ensigns allowed a open forum, to an extent, about how PT went. There was a dozen or so vocal comments about how we shouldn't be PTing with aircrew, or we should have an easier PT session, etc... The general nature of the vocal comments was one of entitlement to an easier time.

PO2 must have been hanging out in back listening to these Ensigns go on about how there life is being ruined by PTing with Aircrew. So in his own way, he came up and stated his piece. When he came up he said, "With respect to all officers in the room," and then went on (in his own way) to tell us that we shouldn't be considering ourselves better then the Aircrew. One Ensign decided to not allow PO2 complete any of his sentences, and so PO2 left.

We wrapped up with a couple more vocalizations of entitlement, and then Student Control Ensigns informed us that if we get together with the PT program, we might get Tuesdays and Thursdays off.



Over all I am disappointed. We obviously need to get into better physical condition, and the Command has decided that PTing with Aircrew is how we are going to do it. Besides that not allowing PO2 to complete his thoughts, and showing total disrespect is not how we as Ensigns show be acting. It's a horrible example of leadership, beside total disregard for the Navy as a whole. We are privileged to be here, and we have a sweet deal. I don't understand why we can't be content with what we have.

 

[CAMike]

I'll chime if I may. This situation obviously shouldn't have happened- no matter what the exact words were or who started it. That said- it's an opportunity for those present to learn from the situation. If you allow yourself to get involved in this type of scenario in the fleet (I assure you- some will be tempted due to personality issues) it will not end well for BOTH parties. Let alone the negative impression you just made on everyone witnessing the exchange. This stuff doesn't even fly in the CIV world anymore.

Like the post a couple above mine stated- It's an opportunity for someone there to bring it up, discuss professionally and with an objective in mind.

 

[Bevo16]

This has turned into an interesting thread and I hope the JO's are reading and absorbing. Traditionally in the USMC, and in some ways in the Navy, the JO's are encouraged to pay attention to thier Gunnys and Chiefs. There are those who serve and those who are served. So where do you fall in that equation?

A Gunny and Chief are a LONG way from a 2nd class petty officer.

It sounds to me like a bunch of officers where having a discussion about PT, and a PO2 didn't like what he was hearing and decided to give his .02, and could have done it in a lot better way. Whoever has put the idea in that young sailors head that he has "positional authority" over a few hundred officers needs to retrain that individual.

"Baby JOPA" discussions do not need input from the aircrew shack. They can work themselves out on their own. Next time do your clearing turns and ask any non-members to depart the pattern. It also sounds like there are some leadership opportunities for the young Studs here.

 

[bubblehead]

* deleted *

 

[FlyinRock]

A Gunny and Chief are a LONG way from a 2nd class petty officer.

It sounds to me like a bunch of officers where having a discussion about PT, and a PO2 didn't like what he was hearing and decided to give his .02, and could have done it in a lot better way. Whoever has put the idea in that young sailors head that he has "positional authority" over a few hundred officers needs to retrain that individual.

"Baby JOPA" discussions do not need input from the aircrew shack. They can work themselves out on their own. Next time do your clearing turns and ask any non-members to depart the pattern. It also sounds like there are some leadership opportunities for the young Studs here.

*******************************
BEVO
There we are. We weren't there and can only surmise. I agree there is some opportunity for leadersip skills .....
Semper Fi
Rocky