Typical day-to-day life

[Flash]

Yeah, but certainly not less hours than a shooter or a TAO; nor at the O-4 level of DESRON staffer, Strike Ops, etc. etc, all of which are none, and routinely appear in Navy Pilots' careers.

They have their own punishment tours in the course of their careers as well, it ain't all Jeremiah Weed and 'stepping' to the aircraft. Every career path in whichever service you choose is going to have its pluses and minuses, at the very least ours doesn't include scarves, ironing our flight suits, the bizarre obsession with avoiding the words box and head and even going so far as to annotate your emails with (sts) when you feel the need.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

They have many more staff positions at the Major, Lt Col and Col levels that allow them to fly even when not in command where we don't have as many like that. It comes with its own baggage though and sometimes less flight hours.

Well, but maybe some O-5/6s in CVW staff should fly, except for CAG and DCAG?

Their Captains will stop flying well before they hit 1,000 hours.

AFAIK, there are about 400 Captains in whole Army Aviation, comparable with overall O-3 numbers in just one CVW. Nor the quantity of USAF 60s' pilots (all officers too) is much more impressive, I think. Suppose that USN 60s' community is the largest military crowd related to type that is infested with officers. Of course, the more operators you have, the more possibility for them to do something other than flying.

 

[DanMa1156]

They have their own punishment tours in the course of their careers as well, it ain't all Jeremiah Weed and 'stepping' to the aircraft. Every career path in whichever service you choose is going to have its pluses and minuses, at the very least ours doesn't include scarves, ironing our flight suits, the bizarre obsession with avoiding the words box and head and even going so far as to annotate your emails with (sts) when you feel the need.

Agreed, but it's a bit more senior in their careers, typically. With that said, I generally agree with our path and am not one of the "I only signed up to fly! Grumble grumble grumble!" type guys. I understand why we have a disassociated tour (maybe not why some jobs are valued so much - i.e. shooter, while some are not i.e. TAO), and I also have enjoyed being a Division Officer where I know my Sailors truly respected me and still keep in touch with me. I've enjoyed the officer part of the equation. I've been sent as an envoy to a foreign country, I helped plan a Red Flag exercise, I enjoyed "peeking behind the curtain" to see what the greater impact of the war effort was during CAG OPS meetings, etc., and I value those experiences and largely why I chose the Navy over the Air Force.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Yeah, but getting there is the hard part...

Right, but as you probably know, Russian military officers are divided on those who are reluctant warriors and those who are belligerent dumbasses, depending on, first of all, service and educational background. AAW defence forces - the main user of SA-20 and other land-based SAMs - in Soviet time was a separate service, akin to USMC administratively, having consisted, in turn, of two parts: an interseptor forces and SAM forces. If you are ready to be amazed by something unbelivable, there you go: the former, headed by the fighter pilots, were and still are the most thug-like gang very blood-thirsty to get an aerial kill. The latters, having mostly solid electro engineering or general math/physics education amalgamated in military training for five years, were/are very sceptical in things like leadership, patriotism, homeland and alike, but more concerned by the calculations how to place a missile onto target and the worse the circumstances are, the better - kinda sport, like soccer or golf. You can find an unprecedented amount of retired SAM officers in a fanfic writing crowd, showbizz, local rock bands, half-legal border firms trading with smugglers and so on. Creative people, free from the military ethos at all.
So if you can switch to 121,5 or 243 and tell those of them on duty something curious and funny, they'd probably decide you are smart enough to stay alive and make a mutually useful relationships, which is more important to them than some military victories;-)
BTW, a navalized SA-20, SAM Fort, is the most unreliable thing I have ever heard of. Not the missiles or VLS which are essentially equal to the land variants, but the fire control radar, which is totally different from the landbased version and absolutely hostile to the personnell and maritime electricity's reality. Simple power supply's switch between generators could knock it out for days. An endless pain in the ass of the Missile-Artillery DH of the cruisers. Maybe naval version of S-400 will be better, time will show.

 

[samb]

That number seems a bit high for a junior 60 Pilot. Now, in fairness, their CWO program isn't quite comparable to the Navy's officers - they are not expected to have "officer" responsibilities out of the cockpit or unrelated to flight / tactics. Their Captains will stop flying well before they hit 1,000 hours. The ones we met on deployment were just about done flying and one was at 500 total hours and the other was just shy of 800 total hours.

Due to budget cuts, reduced deployments and increasing need for professional development in order to get promoted, I think you'll find that the days of the Warrant Officer being only an aviator are long gone. Most guys are lucky to make their yearly minimums flying and a warrant officer these days will have a hard time breaking 1,000 hours at the end of the first 8 year commitment. A lot of that comes from the way an Army Aviation unit is set up and run (at least in the Cavalry). Our leadership leans heavily on Warrant Officers to take care of running the unit so we are in charge of everything from supply, commo, arms rooms to our ALSE shops, and are rated in our abilities to perform those tasks. As a result, very little emphasis is placed on aviation ability during our evaluations. Some of the worst pilots I have ever seen are promoted ahead of peers simply because of their presence during command meetings.

In a typical line unit the Warrant Officers make up the bulk of the manpower. Crew chiefs are usually very busy trying to keep the birds in shape, so the Warrant Officers pick up much of the slack when it comes to grunt work. Who's setting up tents? Warrant Officers. Who's PMCSing vehicles in the motor pool? Warrant Officers. Who's laying out equipment for inventories? Warrant Officers. Who's maintaining weapons and running ranges? Warrant Officers.

As for the Captains vs Warrant Officer flight time thing... I don't think the gap is as big as some would have you think. At least now that we are flying less and not deploying. Most CPTs getting looked at for MAJ that I know are between 1000-2000 hours. The same thing can be said for CW2s getting looked at for CW3.

The grass is always greener over the septic tank...

 

[RobLyman]

Due to budget cuts, reduced deployments and increasing need for professional development in order to get promoted, I think you'll find that the days of the Warrant Officer being only an aviator are long gone. Most guys are lucky to make their yearly minimums flying and a warrant officer these days will have a hard time breaking 1,000 hours at the end of the first 8 year commitment. A lot of that comes from the way an Army Aviation unit is set up and run (at least in the Cavalry). Our leadership leans heavily on Warrant Officers to take care of running the unit so we are in charge of everything from supply, commo, arms rooms to our ALSE shops, and are rated in our abilities to perform those tasks. As a result, very little emphasis is placed on aviation ability during our evaluations. Some of the worst pilots I have ever seen are promoted ahead of peers simply because of their presence during command meetings.

In a typical line unit the Warrant Officers make up the bulk of the manpower. Crew chiefs are usually very busy trying to keep the birds in shape, so the Warrant Officers pick up much of the slack when it comes to grunt work. Who's setting up tents? Warrant Officers. Who's PMCSing vehicles in the motor pool? Warrant Officers. Who's laying out equipment for inventories? Warrant Officers. Who's maintaining weapons and running ranges? Warrant Officers.

As for the Captains vs Warrant Officer flight time thing... I don't think the gap is as big as some would have you think. At least now that we are flying less and not deploying. Most CPTs getting looked at for MAJ that I know are between 1000-2000 hours. The same thing can be said for CW2s getting looked at for CW3.

The grass is always greener over the septic tank...

Not the same experience I have had in the Army National Guard. Untracked warrants do pick up the crappy admin type jobs, but if you are tracked and worth a sh--, you will be a company maintenance officer, instructor/standardization pilot, etc.. at the CW2 to CW3 level. I haven't done an inventory, setup or torn down a tent, or participated in motor pool crap in a long time. But then again, I am a tracked maintenance and instructor pilot. True, its a little less common to see multi-tracked individuals or officers who revert to warrant in the active duty. But, it happens all of the time in the national guard. One of my good friends is a CW2 who was a prior LTC battalion commander.

 

[samb]

I really have no idea how the Guard compares... But I do know that even our SPs would lend a hand if they had nothing else to do. It probably has to do with the increased workload of a decisive action fight and the return to the field. During COIN operations there just wasn't that much to do. Or it could have to do with the divestment of the Kiowa. Or I could have just seen shitty units.

It sounds like the Guard could be a pretty great gig.

 

[RobLyman]

It can be a pretty good gig, but it takes a little time and/or luck to get a full time gig. AGR is even more difficult.

 

[zippy]

More than a couple O-5s (outside tacair, no less) 'leading' squadrons with less than 2000 hours of total (screw) time. Hmmmm. They, coincidentally, seem to care more about TPS reports than airborne proficiency.

I would say it's just ducks picking ducks, but ducks go fly from time to time.

We called them penguins in my squadron... the flightless birds.

 

[zippy]

And while hours may not be the best indication of whose focus is more on flying, perhaps their career pipeline is, whereas a Naval Aviator's career pipeline gets progressively harder to fly with each and every tour, that is not quite the case for an Air Force pilot until after the rank of Major, is it not? There is no "disassociated tour" for the typical Air Force JO.

There are now 3-4 year UAV assignments for second tour AF JOs from certain communities that can spare the manning (read: C-17s/C-130 etc).

 

[DanMa1156]

There are now 3-4 year UAV assignments for second tour AF JOs from certain communities that can spare the manning (read: C-17s/C-130 etc).

That's a fair counterpoint.

 

[Jim123]

We called them penguins in my squadron... the flightless birds.

Seagulls. Gotta throw rocks at them to get 'em to fly.

Even seen the odd one get command of a training squadron. Kinda awkward when you notice they're on the schedule for a warmup flight... again.