Uniforms

[robav8r]

I'm spending way too much time on here today as I'm taking the ASTB on Monday, so my apologies....
BUT
You are saying that and when I was at Fenty a Air Cav squadron was there and their 1SG no crap told them they couldn't wear their wings, even at the chow hall. They were pissed and to rebel on their off days those guys would put on their stetsons and spurs and walk around their company living areas. Good stuff but the army has incredible avaiators but they get treated like crap a good amount of the time.



I'm not saying this in any sarcastic manner, but sir you gotta stay away from Disney drive in Baghram!! Your arm will fall off and the army enlisted guys have to render no exceptions! (oh and wear a PT too) To get around it, I saw quite a few people walking around with beanie caps and jackets without rank that looked suspicously important. Luckily i'm no one important and only had to pass through there for a couple hours on rare occasion

I can't even begin to comment on what asinine uniform shenanigans may or may not go on in other branches of service . . .

 

[gotta_fly]

The only thing that irritates me about flight suits is the double standard many officers have when it comes to flight suits and coveralls. The same people that would yell at enlisted sailors for wearing their coveralls home would be the same officers that were wearing their flight suits out in town. I imagine much of the grief probably stems from that same attitude with SWOs. The more SWOs that see you in a bag at your local burger joint, the less friendly they will be towards people ever wearing them. A little discretion goes a long way.

Always watched; always judged.

You sound like a SWO.


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[helolumpy]

You are saying that and when I was at Fenty a Air Cav squadron was there and their 1SG no crap told them they couldn't wear their wings, even at the chow hall. They were pissed and to rebel on their off days those guys would put on their stetsons and spurs and walk around their company living areas. Good stuff but the army has incredible avaiators but they get treated like crap a good amount of the time.

When I was at Camp As Salaya the CSM stated at Indoc that no one was supposed to wear "those glory badges" because we were in Qatar and it was a war zone!
5 minutes later he made it a point that no one was supposed to have any IR glint flags on their uniforms because we weren't in a war zone at As Salaya.
As a Navy guy I was confused, but the Army folks looked just as confused... Were we in a war zone or not???

 

[robav8r]

The only thing that irritates me about flight suits is the double standard many officers have when it comes to flight suits and coveralls.

You obviously don't have a clue about the difference between flight suits & coveralls.

 

[eas7888]

When I was at Camp As Salaya the CSM stated at Indoc that no one was supposed to wear "those glory badges" because we were in Qatar and it was a war zone!
5 minutes later he made it a point that no one was supposed to have any IR glint flags on their uniforms because we weren't in a war zone at As Salaya.
As a Navy guy I was confused, but the Army folks looked just as confused... Were we in a war zone or not???

Nothing in the Army is designed to make sense. AR670-1 says one thing, the CSM says something else that conflicts with the AR. . .by God, you'd better comply with both or there will be hell to pay.

Along those same lines. . .we were told we HAD to wear a specific combat patch on our uniforms while I was on my second deployment. Nowhere does it state in the regulations that you are required to wear a specific combat patch, only that you're allowed to wear ones that you have been authorized/awarded. Our commander thought we would look more 'uniform' and it would help us 'work together as a team' if we all wore the same patch. His words, I kid you not. As if wearing the same uniform wasn't enough.

I've noticed during my short time in the Navy, there is much more room to wiggle when it comes to uniforms. Something I greatly appreciate.

 

[wlawr005]

If by "wiggle room" you mean it's okay to be fat, then you are correct.

 

[revan1013]

Flight suits have velcro for a reason!

 

[helolumpy]

I've noticed during my short time in the Navy, there is much more room to wiggle when it comes to uniforms. Something I greatly appreciate.

Well, there used to be wiggle room....

 

[robav8r]

Well, there used to be wiggle room....

That would be a funny threadjack . . . what was your original flight suit size from flight school and what are you in now.

 

[Sapper!]

Nothing in the Army is designed to make sense. AR670-1 says one thing, the CSM says something else that conflicts with the AR. . .by God, you'd better comply with both or there will be hell to pay.

Along those same lines. . .we were told we HAD to wear a specific combat patch on our uniforms while I was on my second deployment. Nowhere does it state in the regulations that you are required to wear a specific combat patch, only that you're allowed to wear ones that you have been authorized/awarded. Our commander thought we would look more 'uniform' and it would help us 'work together as a team' if we all wore the same patch. His words, I kid you not. As if wearing the same uniform wasn't enough.

I've noticed during my short time in the Navy, there is much more room to wiggle when it comes to uniforms. Something I greatly appreciate.

Man you are spot on....it was funny the Engineer 1 star signed a memo and distributed it to the command that said down to the BNs what SSI-FWS we were authorized and then we were promptly told to not wear any of them. Sheesh!

It's like the cartoon I saw on a FOB in Iraq, a 1SG yelling to take off all the snivel gear when it's cold and to wear everything when it's hot outside. Such a strange thing....but when black berets came along I gave up all hope on things getting straightened out. If you are in the Army just give up, no one really ever knows what the uniform of the day is.

 

[Brett327]

That would be a funny threadjack . . . what was your original flight suit size from flight school and what are you in now.

Same.

 

[Gatordev]

The only thing that irritates me about flight suits is the double standard many officers have when it comes to flight suits and coveralls. The same people that would yell at enlisted sailors for wearing their coveralls home would be the same officers that were wearing their flight suits out in town. I imagine much of the grief probably stems from that same attitude with SWOs. The more SWOs that see you in a bag at your local burger joint, the less friendly they will be towards people ever wearing them. A little discretion goes a long way.

Always watched; always judged.

Sounds like you aren't fully savvy on the flight suit regs. Coveralls =/= Flyer's Coveralls.

 

[kmac]

BUT
You are saying that and when I was at Fenty a Air Cav squadron was there and their 1SG no crap told them they couldn't wear their wings, even at the chow hall. They were pissed and to rebel on their off days those guys would put on their stetsons and spurs and walk around their company living areas. Good stuff but the army has incredible avaiators but they get treated like crap a good amount of the time.

I'm pretty sure no badges were authorized on ACUs/Multicams while in theater. It had to do with wearing the IBA/IOTV from what I recall.

Having said that, my buddy (a LTJG) got "corrected" by a SGM at Fenty for not wearing a cover. My buddy was about to explode on this guy when the corpsman next to him explained that the reason for a lack of covers and blood on their uniforms was because they just came off a MEDEVAC bird, trying to save the life of an AF SrA. Some SGMs seemed to have a garrison attitude. It's similar to the SeaBee who called the MPs because one of my cultural advisers was on the phone outside of the DFAC without an escort (me, who was with the other 3 Afghans quickly getting food to go). It's as if he forgot we were actually in Afghanistan and there may actually be Afghans around. People who don't get outside of the wire need better things to do in life...

 

[Jim123]

Having said that, my buddy (a LTJG) got "corrected" by a SGM at Fenty for not wearing a cover... just came off a MEDEVAC bird... Some SGMs seemed to have a garrison attitude... People who don't get outside of the wire need better things to do in life...

True.

Partly it's a service culture thing- one of the things that the Army is really great at is getting a butt ton of people to all do the same thing, including every last straggler. That makes their day-to-day approach to discipline is different from the Navy and especially different from what we're used to in naval aviation. And sometimes that ends up being dumbed-down to the lowest common denominator which also means a lot of "WTF" moments like yours.

I'm not trying to justify it, just offering an explanation.

 

[hotmetal]

Sounds like you aren't fully savvy on the flight suit regs. Coveralls =/= Flyer's Coveralls.

You obviously don't have a clue about the difference between flight suits & coveralls.

I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes, but I will speak fairly candidly.

I very well may not fully comprehend flight suit regulations. However, I do know this much: flight suits are not a service uniform and as such are not authorized for wear in public (save your standard quick stops like gas, child care, et al.).

Navy Uniform Regs 6803.2 a) "Flight suits may be worn by aircrew members and individuals engaged in flight or flight-related duties during that working day. [...] Flight suits may be worn to/from home and work to include brief and appropriate stops, on military transport aircraft, and to official business meetings away from home station when the wear of flight suits is appropriate for transportation, or for the level of meeting (i.e. working meeting)."

Obviously the gray area that causes problems is "flight-related duties" which really should include anything you're doing at the squadron (ie, bags all day at work). However, the second part is pretty clear on wear outside of work. Flight suits are equivalent to what utilities used to be, and while wear is slightly less restrictive than coverall wear (never outside the base), its always frustrating to see officers get on enlisted guys about proper uniform wear, and then see these same guys grabbing lunch off base in their flight suits.

Is it really that hard to lead from the front? If you're going to enforce uniform regs on your subordinates, first make sure you're complicit with them yourself.