V-22 Osprey: Wonder Weapon or Widow Maker?

[aircav06]

Anyone seen these reports questioning the viability of the V-22 in combat? Its back in the news----again...

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/16497507.htm

Full report
http://www.cdi.org/PDFs/Gailliard on V-22.pdf

Executive summary
http://www.cdi.org/PDFs/Executive%20Summary%20V-22%20Oprey.pdf

 

[phrogdriver]

Anyone seen these reports questioning the viability of the V-22 in combat? Its back in the news----again...

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/16497507.htm

Full report
http://www.cdi.org/PDFs/Gailliard on V-22.pdf

Executive summary
http://www.cdi.org/PDFs/Executive%20Summary%20V-22%20Oprey.pdf

I'm going away for couple of days on leave. I read the short version--talk about coming late to the dance. Switch to an alternative helo now? After we've already switched 3 squadrons over? Yeah, great idea.

More specific critiques of this steaming turd pile of an article when I get back.

 

[Herc_Dude]

I think people can say what they will, but from what all the senior Marines are saying, Osprey isn't not going anywhere. Especially due to the fact that squadrons are being switched over, just like phrogdriver said. They have been pushin hard that its the wave of the future and, like it or not, its not going anywhere.

I hear so many contradicting opinions on this damn bird. I have no idea what is true. Not sure what to think about it when it comes time to select. :banghead_

 

[wrk]

There's two articles this month's Gazette about the V-22. The first one is about how it can't do casualty evac, the second is one that dispells a lot of myths about it. If anything, it points out how people are unreasonably against the V-22, maybe it's sour grapes from helo drivers, maybe they're just scared of it. The casevac article points out that it will never fit into the same LZs as the 46 because it is so much wider, well then in the myth-busting article the author explains that if you turn the osprey sideways, it's pretty much the same size, except the V-22 is 6 or so feet longer than the 46 is wide. What? Can't fit into the same LZs because of 6 feet? You can read the articles online here: http://www.marinecorpsgazette-digital.com/marinecorpsgazette/200701/

 

[wrk]

I hear so many contradicting opinions on this damn bird. I have no idea what is true. Not sure what to think about it when it comes time to select. :banghead_

When they told me that the AC worked so well it spit out ice pellets, I was sold.

 

[skidkid]

When they told me that the AC worked so well it spit out ice pellets, I was sold.

Cobra does that.

 

[Pags]

The article seems to center on the VRS issue, yet they don't seem to realize that VRS will affect a traditional helo the same way. I was under the impression that recovery from VRS in the V-22 was actually easier than in a conventional helo, it's just a matter of recognition of the condition (Does it have Nr?). Just getting that from the executive summary makes me not want to waste my time on the full thing.

 

[Cavrone]

Cobra does that.

Herc does this as well!

 

[gunfighter77]

The Osprey is definitely not the right answer for replacing the Phrog for the CASEVAC mission overall. In some flight profiles the Osprey could bring a new CASEVAC capability to the fight. The capabilities would be a nice addition but by no means a replacement. The Army and the Navy should be doing the majority of CASEVAC missions with their H-60s anyhow. I know there have been a few Navy H-60s in country but there needs to be a hell of a lot more. The Army has been doing a great job in the Marine AOs in regards to CASEVAC missions. I know as Marines we want Marines flying in to pick us up but losing the CH-46 will force us to look to our sister services unless we get a new helicopter. The majority of the CASEVACs in Iraq are along the river which will make the sailors feel right at home instead of searching for submarines or doughnuts on the boat.

 

[Herc_Dude]

The article seems to center on the VRS issue, yet they don't seem to realize that VRS will affect a traditional helo the same way.

That's what I was thinking too. The thing is that they DO realize it, but Joe Public doesn't. Anything to tug at their emotions. And we all know how important those public opinion polls are to our elected officials. Not that I think there will be any opinion polls about the Osprey, its just the idea about the media and their reporting tactics.
s/f

 

[jarhead]

both are interesting articles ... seems like, IMO, the Captain knows little actual facts about the MV-22 and is regurgitating information based on little to no actual Osprey-working knowledge. take for instance survivability ... the Captain states "in addition to the exposed engines, there is no armor on the aircraft to provide greater survivability" while article right next to it written by the Major, who has been assigned to the Osprey training squadron VMMT-204, states that Osprey components of the engine nacelle have been hardened to withstand direct his from 12.7 mm (50 Cal), “All flight control actuators were proven to be resistant to light AAA armor piercing incendiary at 90% muzzle velocity” and “portions of the structure were actually determined to be invulnerable to all API & HEI projectiles up to and including 23mm". so who's talking out of their ass? my guess would be the Captain.

S/F

There's two articles this month's Gazette about the V-22. The first one is about how it can't do casualty evac, the second is one that dispells a lot of myths about it. If anything, it points out how people are unreasonably against the V-22, maybe it's sour grapes from helo drivers, maybe they're just scared of it. The casevac article points out that it will never fit into the same LZs as the 46 because it is so much wider, well then in the myth-busting article the author explains that if you turn the osprey sideways, it's pretty much the same size, except the V-22 is 6 or so feet longer than the 46 is wide. What? Can't fit into the same LZs because of 6 feet? You can read the articles online here: http://www.marinecorpsgazette-digital.com/marinecorpsgazette/200701/

 

[Gatordev]

The Osprey is definitely not the right answer for replacing the Phrog for the CASEVAC mission overall. In some flight profiles the Osprey could bring a new CASEVAC capability to the fight. The capabilities would be a nice addition but by no means a replacement. The Army and the Navy should be doing the majority of CASEVAC missions with their H-60s anyhow. I know there have been a few Navy H-60s in country but there needs to be a hell of a lot more. The Army has been doing a great job in the Marine AOs in regards to CASEVAC missions. I know as Marines we want Marines flying in to pick us up but losing the CH-46 will force us to look to our sister services unless we get a new helicopter. The majority of the CASEVACs in Iraq are along the river which will make the sailors feel right at home instead of searching for submarines or doughnuts on the boat.

So just out of curiosity, do you think the Navy helo guys actually enjoy being sidelined? If so, it's time to take a step from the Marine cool aide. As for ASW, it's not sexy, but there are certainly times when it's needed, and you have to practice in order to be good when it is needed.

 

[wrk]

Phrogdriver can clarify, but I've heard that the VRS envelope on the V-22 is actually BETTER than a helicopter. You need something like 1400 fpm in a descent to trigger it, and getting out of it is done simply by rotating the nacells forward. There's a VRS warning system built into the V-22 as well.

 

[gunfighter77]

So just out of curiosity, do you think the Navy helo guys actually enjoy being sidelined? If so, it's time to take a step from the Marine cool aide. As for ASW, it's not sexy, but there are certainly times when it's needed, and you have to practice in order to be good when it is needed.

It sounds like you want to get out there, but it seems there has been little action taken by the higher ups. I'll end it at that so you guys can get back to the Osprey discussion.

 

[aircav06]

I think the Army should have been joint partners in the V-22 development, but we were way too enamored with the money-pit Comanche at the time. Comanche consumed all our resources for years.