What happens if you don't pass flight school?

[xmid]

Only person I have personally met that failed out due to flying, failed something like 12 or 14 flights including three check rides (the same check ride but he did it three times).

Bullshit. This is numerically impossible. If someone had failed that many flights they would be going to an FPC automatically for failing a check ride. If you fail that then you are done. There was a somewhat recent attrite that had the most I've seen and he had about half that many unsats. In reality it only takes 2-3 unsats to fail primary if they are back to back. Any more than that and they would have to be spaced out around the syllabus. There comes a point (well before 12-14 unsats) where the front office will seriously question if you are cut out for this line of work.

Study more, give bad advice less.

 

[WEGL12]

Bullshit. This is numerically impossible. If someone had failed that many flights they would be going to an FPC automatically for failing a check ride. If you fail that then you are done. There was a somewhat recent attrite that had the most I've seen and he had about half that many unsats. In reality it only takes 2-3 unsats to fail primary if they are back to back. Any more than that and they would have to be spaced out around the syllabus. There comes a point (well before 12-14 unsats) where the front office will seriously question if you are cut out for this line of work.

Study more, give bad advice less.

Only going by what he told me. Seemed like a high number but he may have been counting sims as well. I didn't really ask many questions about it because I knew he was embarrassed by failing out.

And roger that on the study more and bad gouge less.

 

[MIDNJAC]

I saw a lot of guys/gals attrite. Maybe only one or two in primary, but by advanced (T-45's) there were probably half a dozen in my time there. Another 4-5 in the RAG. And even a couple in the fleet. I wouldn't say there was one answer for what happened to any of them.....some stayed, some got out.

 

[wlawr005]

I was never scared of attriting until I got to the RAG...now I think about it more often than I should.

I hope it gets better once I actually start flying.

 

[Bronco]

I was never scared of attriting until I got to the RAG...

Why is that?

 

[wlawr005]

Because, from the outside looking in right now, this shit looks hard.

I'm sure it's mostly just new-guy nerves.

 

[BigBadBoJenkins]

I didn't fly for over a year after advanced, and it came back pretty quick

 

[MIDNJAC]

Because, from the outside looking in right now, this shit looks hard.

I'm sure it's mostly just new-guy nerves.

Good news - the F/A-18 is much easier to fly than the T-45, from a monkey skills perspective. Bad news - you will now have a lot more tasks/things going on in the cockpit than you did in advanced. As such, always remember your priorities, which I think gets lost on new guys that want to do awesome and in the process get distracted and forget the very basics.....point being that if you are getting task saturated and have to shitcan everything else, just fly good form. That is the biggest thing your IP's are going to want to see from you, and that you aren't an admin or tac admin nightmare. I hadn't flown for about 7 months by the time I had my first RAG fam flight, and believe me, it took a while to get to where I was even treading water, let alone swimming in the syllabus. It's not the end of the world. Believe it or not, your IP's want to get you through. I flew with many of them in the fleet, and to a man, they are good guys who have the desire and the instructional skills to mold you into a quality FNG, as long as you are willing to listen and learn from them. Keep a good attitude, know your stuff cold in the brief, and learn from the mistakes you make in the jet. It's not uncommon to see a flight again, particularly in more advanced parts of the syllabus (BFM/FWT). Normally save a major safety of flight/headwork issue, the RAG tends to make that process a lot less painful than it typically was in the VT's (pink sheet, khakis, ET's, etc). I guess the long road to a small house in this is that if you study hard, know the material, are safe in the jet and fly good form, take your beatings in the debrief like a man (or woman) and maintain a good attitude, your IP's are going to be willing to help you succeed. If all those things are your trends, but you stumble in a particular phase just trying to properly execute in the jet, you are going to be just fine, and you are going to be in the company of 95% of the guys who are going through with you. In short, work hard but don't stress. It isn't rocket science, and there is always someone dumber than you who made it through.

 

[wlawr005]

Lately the class advisors are taking a prominent role and really taking care of us with a lot of brother/mother-hood as well. We've got two really solid guys who seem to want us to succeed.

 

[ryan1234]

Because, from the outside looking in right now, this shit looks hard.

I'm sure it's mostly just new-guy nerves.

Obviously can't speak to the Navy fighter RAGs, but from the end of the AF B-course... it was unspeakably harder than our primary/advanced. Now, it's way more about tactics and how to execute things as a 2 or 4 ship. Every waking minute seems to be spent in the vault learning how we fight and how the enemy fights. Most all the instructors just expect that they won't need to waste time talking about basic things like form position or general airmanship. However, it is still *just* the F-15E Basic Course... 9 months, 43 sorties and 36 sims. For us, the instructors are great. They're just really good instructors. Debriefs are always harsh, but you learn a ton every time. They're not there to wash people out, and mistakes are always made... but as long as you adapt and overcome, you're fine. They just don't have patience or time for people who can't "get it" or just don't have the very basics down.

All said and done, there's nothing like stepping (walking to the jet) to your dark gray jet-warhorse on a ramp full of them. Even on the most complicated, terrible sorties... you can still look over at your bro flying in form and think "Man, this is pretty cool!"

 

[BigBadBoJenkins]

All said and done, there's nothing like stepping (walking to the jet) to your dark gray jet-warhorse on a ramp full of them. Even on the most complicated, terrible sorties... you can still look over at your bro flying in form and think "Man, this is pretty cool!"

I have that feeling when I walk to the jet too. Sometimes the study/brief stuff really beats me down, but then when I walk out to the aircraft I realize that my job kicks ass.

 

[jmcquate]

Lately the class advisors are taking a prominent role and really taking care of us with a lot of brother/mother-hood as well. We've got two really solid guys who seem to want us to succeed.

Of course they want you to succeed, the Navy has invested a lot of money on you to fly the platform you are training for. They know much more about your abilities than you do right now..........take MIDNJAC's advice and get to the Fleet.

 

[sevenhelmet]

I saw a lot of guys/gals attrite. Maybe only one or two in primary, but by advanced (T-45's) there were probably half a dozen in my time there. Another 4-5 in the RAG. And even a couple in the fleet. I wouldn't say there was one answer for what happened to any of them.....some stayed, some got out.

That is a lot of attrites! My RAG class definitely didn't lose anyone. I don't think I saw anyone fail after T-45 Weps, and that guy wound up flying CODs. I guess the stories about Meridian are true...

Being a little nervous is OK, but worrying excessively about what will happen to you if XYZ is probably not healthy. If you find yourself worrying more than you should about failing out of something it's a sign you might need to change your strategy to succeed. Get advice, have an outlet like exercise or a hobby, and stay humble and proactive. Flight school is a lot of work, but it should be tons of fun, too.

 

[Uncle Fester]

I can't speak for all communities, but in mine, FRS attrites were very uncommon. A handful per year, maybe.

Late stage attrites are a pain in the ass for everyone - the student, the squadron, the Fleet. Most FRS's don't produce all that many students per class, and the Fleet squadrons are planning on getting those guys to replace their own departures. So a guy attriting in the RAG usually means a Fleet squadron will be shorthanded or have to extend another guy, neither of which they like to do if it's avoidable. Particularly if they're deployed or about to deploy. Unless they feel you're flat-out unsafe or have a dirtbag reputation, they try to avoid attrition.

Why do some guys get chance after chance and others get sent home quickly? In a lot of cases, it's attitude and reputation. I've seen studs get plenty of chances, help and remediation when they were proceeded by a "working really hard, good attitude, just not quite getting it" reputation. "Problem children" who have a reputation for complaining and always needing special care and handling are more likely to get a red card in their locker.

 

[Gatordev]

Why do some guys get chance after chance and others get sent home quickly? In a lot of cases, it's attitude and reputation. I've seen studs get plenty of chances, help and remediation when they were proceeded by a "working really hard, good attitude, just not quite getting it" reputation.

Let's not forget diversity, in all it's various flavors, as well.