What is it like to be an NFO?

[asa66]

Hello, I'm currently in the application process and I am trying to decide whether to put pilot or NFO as my first choice.

Because my vision is borderline for SNA (acquity is fine, but refractive limits are iffy), I'm thinking it is probably best to put NFO for first choice (no point in wasting a billet just to be NPQd, right?). I could start wearing contact lenses, and possibly transition one day.

However, I'm expecting that if I put NFO first, I'll stick with it, and not try to transition unless I really don't like the job. So I had a few questions about the quality of life of NFOs. I know a lot has been posted on this, and I realize that the duties vary GREATLY depending on the pipelines, so I'll try to be specific:

1) It's hard for someone like me (with no navy experience) to distinguish between the little fun jabs that NFOs and pilots take at each other, and what the job is really like. ARE NFOs treated at all like 2nd class citizens? I think I could be very happy with the job as long as I felt that what I was doing was important, and that pilots / other crewmembers respected my contributions and input. I don't really want to be a rock star, but I don't want to be a flight attendant either.

2) Have most NFOs in the fleet found their job to be rewarding and challenging? I know there is an NFO to pilot transition program...is that mostly for people who never wanted to be NFOs in the first place and are bitter, or does the job make people want to become pilots?

3) Again, I know this really depends on which pipeline, but how much responsibility is generally placed on an NFO. I mean, is the NFO generally doing enough to stay busy for most of the flight? Or does he kind of go, OK that's done, wake me up in 2 hours?

4) I assume ground duties are about the same as pilot (and as important).

Thanks in advance

An NFO has for some time been equal to aviators in all respects. When I was first in that wasn't the case and NFOs had a hard time making LCDR whereas it was automatic for aviators unless they really screwed-up. NFOs are treated as equals and in many cases, as the mission commander, are in command of the flight/mission.

NFO will keep you so busy you'll need four arms. The busiest job on a P-3 is navigator. Also the most fun, in my opinion. But being NAV on an 11 hour mission, plus 4 hour preflight, plus two hour post-flight, willl leave you very tired and, hopefully, satisfied.

Yes, the NFO stays busy the entire flight. There is no down time at all on tactical missions. On cross-countries (or cross-oceans) there is time to relax.

Ground duties are the same as for aviators. You will be very busy most of the time.

Finally, if you want aviator, go for it. Go NFO only if you mean it. No one wants to fly with someone rejected by another program. I don't think you'll be sorry. Good luck!

 

[Triumph57]

Hello. I was recently selected to go to Navy OCS as a SNFO. When I applied for SNA, my OR said "You should apply for SNFO as well" to which I replied "OK". I didn't get my 1st choice of SNA. I realized after having been selected for SNFO that I didn't really know what a NFO did. This board has been very helpful in figuring out what it is that a NFO does, but I still have a few questions.


I see the term WSO (Weapon Systems Operator) connected with NFOs a lot. On the F-18F does this mean that the NFO gets to push the button to make the bad guys go boom? AJTranny’s post on the previous page wasn’t very encouraging…


It was mentioned that multiple NFOs in the Prowler were responsible for electronic attack including firing the weapon systems. Is this still the case for the Growler (except now there is only one NFO)?


I have heard that it may be possible as a Navy NFO to get FAC (A) qualified and do a tour on the ground with the army or navy ground troops. Is this possible and if so how likely is this? Are only NFOs in certain aircraft eligible for FAC (A) designation?


I was reading this link from another thread but it seems pretty outdated. Since the role of an NFO varies a lot from aircraft to aircraft could someone please give me a more up to date list of the naval aircraft with NFOs and the role of the NFO in those aircraft?

http://depts.washington.edu/uwnrotc/officer/commun/nfo.html


What is the difference in capabilities of the F-18E and F-18F due to the fact the F has an NFO and the E is single pilot?


Thank you for taking the time to read and answer my questions. I appreciate it.

 

[Scruff]

Bump.... I'm curious about the answers to some of those questions.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Navy NFO's fly in the F-18F, EA-6B, EA-18G, E-2C, P-3, EP-3 and E-6.

Usually only guys from the Strike-Fighter (Rhino) community qual as FAC(A)'s. I say 'usually' only because I'm sure someone from other communities has managed to scam a slot at the school, but it's not at all common. Be aware that the (A) is for airborne - as in, doing the mission from the plane. Opportunities to pound the proverbial ground as a FAC (JTAC is now the preferred nomenclature, dude) are out there, but few and far between. If dirt on your boots is what you want, join the Marines.

FAC(A) is not the only way to drop in support of the grunt. It's just a particular qual for a particular mission. Close-air support is what Navy and Marine Air does nowadays.

 

[Kickflip89]

Hello. I was recently selected to go to Navy OCS as a SNFO. When I applied for SNA, my OR said "You should apply for SNFO as well" to which I replied "OK". I didn't get my 1st choice of SNA. I realized after having been selected for SNFO that I didn't really know what a NFO did. This board has been very helpful in figuring out what it is that a NFO does, but I still have a few questions.


I see the term WSO (Weapon Systems Operator) connected with NFOs a lot. On the F-18F does this mean that the NFO gets to push the button to make the bad guys go boom? AJTranny?s post on the previous page wasn?t very encouraging?


It was mentioned that multiple NFOs in the Prowler were responsible for electronic attack including firing the weapon systems. Is this still the case for the Growler (except now there is only one NFO)?


I have heard that it may be possible as a Navy NFO to get FAC (A) qualified and do a tour on the ground with the army or navy ground troops. Is this possible and if so how likely is this? Are only NFOs in certain aircraft eligible for FAC (A) designation?


I was reading this link from another thread but it seems pretty outdated. Since the role of an NFO varies a lot from aircraft to aircraft could someone please give me a more up to date list of the naval aircraft with NFOs and the role of the NFO in those aircraft?

http://depts.washington.edu/uwnrotc/officer/commun/nfo.html


What is the difference in capabilities of the F-18E and F-18F due to the fact the F has an NFO and the E is single pilot?


Thank you for taking the time to read and answer my questions. I appreciate it.

I'll attempt to give you a little info on the above, but I'm still very much a cone and have just started the RAG, so maybe some others can chime in with more knowledges.

In the newer -18Fs the HCUs do have weapons release buttons, which means that the WSOs do have the capability to pickle ordnance. However, the master arm switch is with the pilot, and honestly most of the weapons release stuff is pretty pilot-oriented, as it probably should be. Still, the capability is there for WSOs to pickle both A/G and A/A ordnance. The Growler has the advanced crew station as far as I know, so they should have the pickle buttons.

The biggest difference I can see between -Es and -Fs is the CAS mission is pretty FO-centric. I'm sure -Es can do CAS just fine, but I'd imagine it's more efficient with a crewed airplane.

Don't know much about what's involved in getting the FAC(A) qual. There are ground FAC jobs available, but I don't know if having a FAC(A) qual carries any weight, although I'd imagine it could. Biggest thing with getting cool jobs in the Navy is always timing, then performance, then preference, so how likely you are to get a cool ground job several years from now is just plain impossible to say.

As far as platform specific stuff,

P-3C is still in service, and EP-3s would probably be pretty cool.
E-6 is a big jet with a bunch of comm stuff on it...I don't really know much about what they do.
E-2C is still in service with the D coming online soon, kind of like airborne ATC but more tactical. Seems like a lot of studying, but could be pretty fun.
-18G is replacing the prowler, probably pretty busy job with a LOT of studying involved.
-18F study really hard, blow things up sometimes.

 

[Scruff]

Thanks a lot for the responses, I'm definitely looking forward to it.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Like I always tell my students - you want to know what a community is like, ask an instructor from that community. Pick their brains...never met an IP who didn't want to talk your ear off about how his plane is the best-kept secret in the Navy.

E-2's do not do "tactical ATC", though that's usually what you hear from people who don't fly it. AIC is like ATC in the same way that flying a cropduster is like flying a 747: same basic skill set, but completely different.

Anyway...don't get all wrapped up in this "I want to drop bombs and kill bad guys pew!pew!pew!" stuff.

 

[Triumph57]

Thanks for the responses. They are much appreciated.

 

[TurnandBurn55]

Hello. I was recently selected to go to Navy OCS as a SNFO. When I applied for SNA, my OR said "You should apply for SNFO as well" to which I replied "OK". I didn't get my 1st choice of SNA. I realized after having been selected for SNFO that I didn't really know what a NFO did. This board has been very helpful in figuring out what it is that a NFO does, but I still have a few questions.


I see the term WSO (Weapon Systems Operator) connected with NFOs a lot. On the F-18F does this mean that the NFO gets to push the button to make the bad guys go boom? AJTranny’s post on the previous page wasn’t very encouraging…


It was mentioned that multiple NFOs in the Prowler were responsible for electronic attack including firing the weapon systems. Is this still the case for the Growler (except now there is only one NFO)?


I have heard that it may be possible as a Navy NFO to get FAC (A) qualified and do a tour on the ground with the army or navy ground troops. Is this possible and if so how likely is this? Are only NFOs in certain aircraft eligible for FAC (A) designation?


I was reading this link from another thread but it seems pretty outdated. Since the role of an NFO varies a lot from aircraft to aircraft could someone please give me a more up to date list of the naval aircraft with NFOs and the role of the NFO in those aircraft?

http://depts.washington.edu/uwnrotc/officer/commun/nfo.html


What is the difference in capabilities of the F-18E and F-18F due to the fact the F has an NFO and the E is single pilot?


Thank you for taking the time to read and answer my questions. I appreciate it.

Alright, just to kick in here.

-The WSO in the -18F will not press the pickle button. I wouldn't get wrapped around the axle though, because that's really the logical employment of a two-seat aircraft. WSO programs the weapons, talks to the ground guys, find the target, shoots the laser (as appropriate), and as a final measure, the pilot will press the button to release ordnance. This way we need concurrence between both aircrew before the very real decision is made to employ weapons.

-FAC(A) in the Navy is an F/A-18F job only. In order for an aircraft to perform the FAC(A) mission, both the pilot and the NFO have to be FAC(A) qualified. In addition (Navy only here), FAC(A) aircrew also go through the qual to become a ground JTAC.

-I would not count on getting to do a tour as a JTAC with a ground unit as a Navy guy. It has happened, but it's extremely rare and usually requires special circumstances/connections. If that's what you're really itching to do, go USMC.

 

[jfulginiti]

What is it like to be an NFO?.......... It's fucking awesome.

 

[kacraven]

Alright, just to kick in here.

-The WSO in the -18F will not press the pickle button. I wouldn't get wrapped around the axle though, because that's really the logical employment of a two-seat aircraft. WSO programs the weapons, talks to the ground guys, find the target, shoots the laser (as appropriate), and as a final measure, the pilot will press the button to release ordnance. This way we need concurrence between both aircrew before the very real decision is made to employ weapons.

-FAC(A) in the Navy is an F/A-18F job only. In order for an aircraft to perform the FAC(A) mission, both the pilot and the NFO have to be FAC(A) qualified. In addition (Navy only here), FAC(A) aircrew also go through the qual to become a ground JTAC.

-I would not count on getting to do a tour as a JTAC with a ground unit as a Navy guy. It has happened, but it's extremely rare and usually requires special circumstances/connections. If that's what you're really itching to do, go USMC.

So basically the NFO aims the 'gun' and the pilot pulls the trigger?

Another NFO question - would you say that NFO's have similar career opportunities after the Navy as pilots? (Besides flying for the airlines)

 

[OscarMyers]

Alright, just to kick in here.

- -I would not count on getting to do a tour as a JTAC with a ground unit as a Navy guy. It has happened, but it's extremely rare and usually requires special circumstances/connections. If that's what you're really itching to do, go USMC.

Not sure how true this is, but i have heard of Navy guys filling JTAC billets for IA assignments. Has anyone here had any experience with that?

 

[wink]

Another NFO question - would you say that NFO's have similar career opportunities after the Navy as pilots? (Besides flying for the airlines)

Inside the Navy NFOs and pilots have identical opportunities. About the only job a pilot can do that a NFO can't is LSO, and that is a collateral duty. After the navy the career options are also just the same. As to airline pilots, well, I have been a pilot for a major airline for 20 years, and there is at least one other guy on this board that is a NFO/airline pilot. True, you have to qualify for the job via civ training, but that is no different then if you got out of the Navy and decided you wanted to be a dentist or get an MBA. I am always amused when people think anyone but a Navy pilot would have restricted civ career options. Last time I looked the unemployment line was not filled with submariners, or surface ship officers. I know many Navy pilots that didn't become airline pilots and several NFOs that did. Hope that doesn't turn anyone's world upside down.

 

[A4sForever]

.... As to airline pilots, well, I have been a pilot for a major airline for 20 years, and there is at least one other guy on this board that is a NFO/airline pilot. True, you have to qualify for the job via civ training, but that is no different then if you got out of the Navy and decided you wanted to be a dentist or get an MBA. I am always amused when people think anyone but a Navy pilot would have restricted civ career options. Last time I looked the unemployment line was not filled with submariners, or surface ship officers. I know many Navy pilots that didn't become airline pilots and several NFOs that did. Hope that doesn't turn anyone's world upside down.

True words all, but you still can't be an LSO, wink ... harrrrumph. :icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::skull_125

+1 ... good to see you 'back'.

 

[wink]

True words all, but you still can't be an LSO, wink ... harrrrumph. :icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::skull_125

+1 ... good to see you 'back'.

I may not be much at the wav'in but I'd be awesome with the book.:icon_wink