When are you locked into the Navy?

[e6bflyer]

If you are asking yourself these questions you should examine why.

If you are looking for a way out if it's not what you want, don't go...

I think you guys are being a bit too harsh in this case. This is just someone asking a few very valid questions prior to taking on a huge commitment, and he is being branded because of it. There are a few guys that I have served with, both officer and enlisted, that I wish had the courage early on to decide that this wasn't their life's calling.
The whole bit about "Honor, Courage, Commitment"? Give me a break...different people are serving for different reasons...some due to family, some due to school obligations, etc. Even if they just plan on serving their time and getting out, it doesn't make them any less of an officer/aviator.

 

[Flash]

:icon_roll

Riiiiight....

Not exactly the example that I would have used, but...

Well, he did.

 

[Recidivist]

I think you guys are being a bit too harsh in this case. This is just someone asking a few very valid questions prior to taking on a huge commitment, and he is being branded because of it. There are a few guys that I have served with, both officer and enlisted, that I wish had the courage early on to decide that this wasn't their life's calling.
The whole bit about "Honor, Courage, Commitment"? Give me a break...different people are serving for different reasons...some due to family, some due to school obligations, etc. Even if they just plan on serving their time and getting out, it doesn't make them any less of an officer/aviator.

Since you quoted me:
I suggest you go back and re-read the content of my post(s), I never flamed the OP for any reason.


I'm not going to address the differences people may have for joining, and whether or not they want to just get out when they're done. The Navy has established their obligations for reasons. Plus the discussions have been done in other threads.

I don't understand the assertions your post makes.
You imply first that the advice given is unfair because it infers that the OP may not be innocently seeking advice, but then you go on to say that you wish some of the people you had served with had courage to see that this wasn't their life's calling. I'd say being honest with yourself about if you're looking for an out is a pretty damn good place to start.

The Questions are valid, but I can't think of any circumstances (outside of NPQ) where they are relevant to an SNA's success. You either think you have what it takes and are going for it (answers to Q's are irrelevant), or you think you may not have what it takes and you're wondering what happens if you don't (Answers to Q's are relevant to Failure). A last possibility is what happens if it's not what you thought it was (again , Q's relevant to failure). Maybe I'm full of myself/it, but those were the scenarios running through my head when I asked those questions. I'm of the opinion that you shouldn't have reservations to the commitment you are making.

One of the primary reasons I withdrew from my OCS/SNA opportunity was I thought I was approaching it with a "I'm looking for a possible out" attitude, and I thought "if I'm going to be a good leader, I'd better be a hell of a lot more sure than 'I think I want this'". I think I would make a good officer now, having addressed my lack of commitment, but with the attitude I had before, no.

If the OP is sure, if the answer to the "why am I asking when I can get out" question isn't "I want an out", then he should put a package in.

@e6bflyer: I'm not trying to be an ass, It's just a personal issue for me and I want to help the OP because he sounds like he's making a lot of the noise I did before I made the regretting decision to withdraw from my opportunity to go to OCS.

 

[A4sForever]

I think you guys are being a bit too harsh in this case. This is just someone asking a few very valid questions prior to taking on a huge commitment, and he is being branded because of it. ......

Branded as what ???? Com'on ...

Naaaaaa .... he's not "branded" ... he's just being "toyed" with ... "messed" with ... just like anyone would be in the Ready Room who asks questions that are basic with answers are patently obvious to those who are not equivocating. This -- AW's -- is a good (and cheap??) way to "grow up", instead of raising your right hand, signing a contract and making a commitment ... don't you think???

I'll tell you something, however .... no one can tell you whether or not you want to "serve" .... IT'S NOT A FUCKING JOB (that was the original USN tag line from the advertisement, without the "F" emphasis, of course .... remember ??? ) .... it's a calling ... you know it in your bones. You know whether or not you want to join up/mount up. You KNOW whether or not you want to be in the US military ... you KNOW whether or not you are willing to "ride to the sound of the guns .... " and that's the ultimate question .... not: "will I be a good manager ... geeee, I hope so ... "???

And it's NOT about "career options" ... that's for the rest of the college grad bed-wetters who populate civie street .... and who never know nor experience what "we" have experienced .... we "Band of Brothers .... "

If you are equivocating .... and trying to find the "options" ... examining all the angles .... the "requirements" ... trying to get someone to tell you "when are you locked into the Navy" (the title of the thread, yes?? ) ... THEN IT'S NOT FOR YOU. PERIOD. NO EXCEPTIONS. It could not be simpler .....

Don't join. And as it's a "volunteer" military these days, you won't have any problems ... for better or for worse. You will only wonder years from now .... what might have been ....

"Many are called .... few are chosen ... " and it's never been any different.

 

[Lawman]

I would recommend that anyone that wants or thinks they want to join the military go find and read the Code of Conduct, specifically Article 1.

"I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense."

If you cant read that and arent mature enough to say to yourself Im willing to make that sacrifice then you have no buisness signing up and raising your right hand.

 

[bunk22]

:icon_roll

Riiiiight....

Not exactly the example that I would have used, but...

Do you not think he did? I certainly don't know being I wasn't in his shoes. He walked away from a badly damaged aircraft, good enough for me.

 

[e6bflyer]

Okay, good points all. After re-reading, I may be a bit off base on a few of my comments, my only bone with the thread is that new guys are asking questions and are being met with a healthy amount of attitude instead of being helpful or answering questions.
As far as the Shane Osborne thing, Bunk, again, I was probably a bit off, but I believe he did what any properly trained aviator in his shoes would have done. That is, save the lives of his crew the only way he could. I am not trying to say that he was in the wrong or questioning his actions, just saying that any one of us could/would have done the same thing. He did it, so kudos to him, but I just think that I may have used Stockdale et al as a better example.
Recidivist - My point exactly, he is looking at his options, I wish that some guys would exercise those options early on when they realize that this isn't their life's calling instead of half-assing their service in the Navy.
A4's - Agreed, armed service is a job like no other (more like a lifestyle), but it is still a job. Many of those snot-nosed kids who are graduating from college and going on to serve as aviators in the Navy are doing it because Uncle Sam picked up the tab for school, not because of some romanticised heroic reason about selfless service for their country. Are those guys any less fit to serve? Will they be any less an officer than any of us? No, they will serve with pride, just like you, just like me. They had the calling, they answered.
Again, I may be way off base here. If I am, then let's continue to flame the newbies and I will stand by and shut my trap.
Standing by for the dogpile......

 

[bunk22]

Okay, good points all. After re-reading, I may be a bit off base on a few of my comments, my only bone with the thread is that new guys are asking questions and are being met with a healthy amount of attitude instead of being helpful or answering questions.
As far as the Shane Osborne thing, Bunk, again, I was probably a bit off, but I believe he did what any properly trained aviator in his shoes would have done. That is, save the lives of his crew the only way he could. I am not trying to say that he was in the wrong or questioning his actions, just saying that any one of us could/would have done the same thing. He did it, so kudos to him, but I just think that I may have used Stockdale et al as a better example.

I gotcha now. Being that we weren't at war (with China), I agree, the lives of his folks is number one. Difficlut to compare guys with just about the ultimate patriot, Stockdale. If I could be 1/100th of that man, I might be okay in some eyes.

 

[A4sForever]

.... Again, I may be way off base here.....

No, you're not ... that's what Air Warriors is for ... information and discourse. Some of it is going to involve differences of opinion; when well meaning people see the same thing from different perspectives ... no harm, no foul.

 

[e6bflyer]

Does anyone have current gouge on what's happening to SNA attrites? Are any getting IAs? SWO? Discharges?

Right now, they are getting redesignated. Most are going the SWO route, but a good number are being farmed out to other communities (supply, intel). Honestly, their fate largely depends on the tracom CO's recommendation, if they outright quit, then they are usually assigned, if they try hard and fail, then they are allowed to explore other options. A few IA billets are being filled, usually by volunteers who are promised good things on the flip side.

As for 6 months from now....who knows?

 

[robav8r]

I'll tell you something, however .... no one can tell you whether or not you want to "serve" .... IT'S NOT A FUCKING JOB (that was the original USN tag line from the advertisement, without the "F" emphasis, of course .... remember ??? ) .... it's a calling ... you know it in your bones. You know whether or not you want to join up/mount up. You KNOW whether or not you want to be in the US military ... you KNOW whether or not you are willing to "ride to the sound of the guns .... " and that's the ultimate question .... not: "will I be a good manager ... geeee, I hope so ... "???

A4's comments struck a funny nerve with me when I read this. As I approach my 26th year of service, the same sentiment expressed above applies to my decision to retire or continue serving. Granted, I had some very good fortune come my way lately, but damn, I absolutely LOVE Naval Aviation - still can't imagine doing ANYTHING else. People say you know when it's time to retire. They also say you know when you hear your calling. I guess it's not my time to retire. And I am humbled and honored to have the opportunity to continue to serve . . .

 

[FrankTheTank]

armed service is a job like no other (more like a lifestyle), but it is still a job. Many of those snot-nosed kids who are graduating from college and going on to serve as aviators in the Navy are doing it because Uncle Sam picked up the tab for school, not because of some romanticised heroic reason about selfless service for their country. Are those guys any less fit to serve? Will they be any less an officer than any of us? No, they will serve with pride, just like you, just like me. They had the calling, they answered.

NO they are still Veterans.. But in many of our leadership's eyes they are.. And that is part of the problem!!! I saw it many times with the command freaking out because a super-sharp warrior looked right in the Skipper's eyes and said "Sorry, I'm not re-enlisting Cause I want to go to school.." Nothing wrong with that and nothing wrong with any service member changing career paths... Civilian or Military.. Walk a mile in shoes kind of thing...

 

[BackOrdered]

A4's comments struck a funny nerve with me when I read this. As I approach my 26th year of service, the same sentiment expressed above applies to my decision to retire or continue serving. Granted, I had some very good fortune come my way lately, but damn, I absolutely LOVE Naval Aviation - still can't imagine doing ANYTHING else. People say you know when it's time to retire. They also say you know when you hear your calling. I guess it's not my time to retire. And I am humbled and honored to have the opportunity to continue to serve . . .

I plan on being a lifer too but I know it is both competitive and difficult to do. If only we could all serve as long as you have. It is truly an accomplishment.

 

[robav8r]

I plan on being a lifer too but I know it is both competitive and difficult to do.

Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.

 

[e6bflyer]

NO they are still Veterans.. But in many of our leadership's eyes they are.. And that is part of the problem!!! I saw it many times with the command freaking out because a super-sharp warrior looked right in the Skipper's eyes and said "Sorry, I'm not re-enlisting Cause I want to go to school.." Nothing wrong with that and nothing wrong with any service member changing career paths... Civilian or Military.. Walk a mile in shoes kind of thing...

So true. We had one dept. head in my squadron check in and tell the skipper that he was getting out after his time in the squadron (he was prior enlisted for 6 years and could retire). Even though he was a test pilot, top of the pack type of dude, it just wasn't right for him and his family to continue. Honestly, because he didn't have to worry about the front office and getting a ticket punched, he was the best dude to work for/with and was one of the most talented pilots and instructors that I flew with in the E-6. He was ALWAYS looking out for his guys, and they knew it. Shame it can't be that way for all the hinges (at least in my community there weren't too many O-4s willing to go to the mat for their guys, can't speak for everyone).
I personally plan on staying in as long as I am still enjoying it (My next set of orders not withstanding). With that said, I hope when the time comes that I can make a clean break and have no regrets about whether I made the right choice.