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The end of NATO?

croakerfish

Well-Known Member
pilot
Sho was in my cohort at Boston University NROTC, a year behind me and ended up just a few months behind me in flight school. She went to HC-1 after winging, but later transitioned to the H-46.

She was the last of my Navy ROTC cohort to remain on active duty. And the only other GO/FO from my NROTC cohort (Marine Gen Paul Kennedy was in the class ahead of me)

She was deep selected and was sent to Harvard Kennedy School whilst still an LT.

A loss for NATO

I have crossed paths with her a few times and know lots of people that served with her. Everyone I know respects the held out of her. Very sorry to see this.
 

number9

Well-Known Member
Contributor
For those who think that NAFTA and free trade hollowed out American manufacturing jobs, some bad news there I'm afraid:

blogimage_manuempshare_041117.jpg


Source. NAFTA was enacted in 1994 and China joined the WTO in 2001.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Brett, it is somewhat amusing, and somewhat sad, to see you treat people (albeit virtually), like you are the Dean of some "Air Warriors University" while you evaluate them on their dissertation of some Masters/PhD level topic that only you are the oracle of. To hear you comment, one would think that there is some UCMJ infraction that necessitates a punitive letter of caution/reprimand to scold those you deem unworthy based on their proletariat level post.
Not sure how you arrived at all that, but this seems like a common refrain for you. I'm just expressing my opinion; you aren't required to agree. Just in case you're feeling left out, I discard most of your takes as well. Consider yourself counseled. :D
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
For those who think that NAFTA and free trade hollowed out American manufacturing jobs, some bad news there I'm afraid:

blogimage_manuempshare_041117.jpg


Source. NAFTA was enacted in 1994 and China joined the WTO in 2001.
You posted the wrong chart to make your point for your snapshot. Your chart, first in the story, actually does show what matters to many. The last chart in the story shows what you wanted to say…that manufacturing - measured as it’s part of the GDP - is about level over time. As the author notes, the reasons are primarily reflections of price level and automation. The analysis is correct.

The chart you actually posted, however, is interesting in that it reflects what people FEEL. As it correctly show, the number of manufacturing jobs are dropping and blue color workers FEEL that. Now, here is the rub - and the thing that most readers seem to ignore or forget - statistical analysis doesn’t get a vote while workers do. Sure, one can get fired from a factory and quickly get a job at McDonald’s (and as we know, according to statistics a job is a job) but they don’t FEEL good about it.

I recommend that every time you read a dry analysis that fits your narrative (and we all do it) you stretch it out to include how people in any certain area might feel about it. How does your good news make factory workers feel? Do they directly benefit from this? Does Mr. Chien work reflect an increase in the standard in his town (St. Louis - once a manufacturing power house)? The answer in this particular case is no, it clearly does not and that feeling is reflected in our current political scene.
 

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
Sure, one can get fired from a factory and quickly get a job at McDonald’s (and as we know, according to statistics a job is a job) but they don’t FEEL good about it.

It's interesting the shipbuilding industry is desperate to get people into the manufacturing trades, and can't.
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
It's interesting the shipbuilding industry is desperate to get people into the manufacturing trades, and can't.
For the most part people seem no longer willing to move toward work. I understand some of the reasons, especially mortgage rates and housing prices, so I guess it is a matter of determining how much someone is willing to suffer before they move along. The Portsmouth (NH) sub yard near me has a fairly full staff but is always recruiting new trade apprentices to backstop the future. It’s probably harder for Gulf Coast yards because of lower population.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
Shipyards can't find workers for two reasons. First, they pay like shit. I see flyers for PNSY and they start at $17 per hour. That's a nickel higher than min wage in Massacchussets, where people often live and commute up there to work. Why break your back working in cramped spaces when Home Depot will hire you for $20 an hour?

The second problem is that nepotism killed the trades. It's very difficult to get an apprenticeship without knowing someone in the industry. I would say about 75% of the engineering rates I've checked-in are in their young 20s and joined the Navy because they were trying to get into a trade. The Navy offered a way where they could get professional certifications and experience so they could get ahead in life. On the flip side, the amount of people who are doing this after getting a college degree is way down from where it was 10-15 years ago.

Anyway, there are many young adults willing to work in trades. There are very few middle-aged adults willing to train them. Of the half-dozen times I've called a plumber, only once did one show up with an apprentice and it was his son.

I have also checked in some people who were older and realized that the Navy's pay and benefits scale outpaces the trades pretty quickly with significantly less risk to life and limb.

The economists I mentioned that were on the Weekly Show talked about the fact that America's industrial economy is never coming back. There may be merit to moving the needle from manufacturing being ~8% of the economy to 10% of the economy, but they argue that the decrease in the manufacturing production sector for things like automobiles and moving to things like biotechnology and communications technology is the natural progression of macroeconomics in an advanced society.

Of course, Trump is a politician and his sales pitch is a return to the golden ages of the 1950s. The days where mom knew how to add just the right amount of powdered milk to 'stretch' that meatloaf that was made with canned meat. Meanwhile, dad drove his deathtrap of a car with manual everything and no AC that got 15mpg to top out at 60mph in order to work a mind-numbing job at a factory operating a steel press to make the cans for the meatloaf. If the kids manage to be lucky enough not to die in a car crash, then hopefully they can survive the measles.

I can't imagine why we ever moved away from this lifestyle.
 
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Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
The chart you actually posted, however, is interesting in that it reflects what people FEEL. As it correctly show, the number of manufacturing jobs are dropping and blue color workers FEEL that. Now, here is the rub - and the thing that most readers seem to ignore or forget - statistical analysis doesn’t get a vote while workers do. Sure, one can get fired from a factory and quickly get a job at McDonald’s (and as we know, according to statistics a job is a job) but they don’t FEEL good about it.

What happened to 'fuck your feelings'? Guess it only matters if it doesn't affect you...
 

JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
What happened to 'fuck your feelings'? Guess it only matters if it doesn't affect you...
Some of these folks make horrible financial decisions too. I mean you don't need to have the latest big pickup truck and a wave runner...but also be anti-expertise and blaming Latin-Americans for your problems. Didn't Vance write a book about this?
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
View attachment 42352
What’s that saying again? Play stupid games…

That guy is a piece of shit, I trust him about as much as that little fuckwad running Russia right now...which happens to be someone that asshole admires.

It also doesn't ring quite true, her billet was as the US Military Representative to the NATO Military Committee and she would have had no command responsibility, the chairman of the committee is an Italian General and even then he has also no real 'command' responsibility within the NATO command structure from what I know. Command responsibility rests with the Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR), General Cavoli, like it does with our Combatant Commanders. So to have her 'refuse to put up the President's and SECDEF's portraits' doesn't make sense nor her holding an all hands either.

Interesting that 1, you took this seriously and 2, you actually noticed this tweet.
 

JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
That guy is a piece of shit, I trust him about as much as that little fuckwad running Russia right now...which happens to be someone that asshole admires.

It also doesn't ring quite true, her billet was as the US Military Representative to the NATO Military Committee and she would have had no command responsibility, the chairman of the committee is an Italian General and even then he has also no real 'command' responsibility within the NATO command structure from what I know. Command responsibility rests with the Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR), General Cavoli, like it does with our Combatant Commanders. So to have her 'refuse to put up the President's and SECDEF's portraits' doesn't make sense nor her holding an all hands either.

Interesting that 1, you took this seriously and 2, you actually noticed this tweet.
Are there really current or former military officers that follow Jack Posobiec? Surely not?
 
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