Like I said, the former was NOT the issue. The latter, most definitely. I can give examples via PM if need be. Don't get me wrong, it's not an absolute. I'm just saying, moreso one than the other.
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Another nail in the coffin of Old-School Naval Avaition..
- Thread starter MasterBates
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Like I said, the former was NOT the issue. The latter, most definitely. I can give examples via PM if need be. Don't get me wrong, it's not an absolute. I'm just saying, moreso one than the other.
Not sure how this go sidetracked to JOPA and hinges, but is it it true that the USN considers O-4s as JO's? I remember hearing that when I was in flight school and I thought, "no way?!" Is that true? (Only to satisfy my curiosity). If you referred to a Marine Major as a JO, you'd find yourself waking up in a bathtub full of ice with your tongue and your kidneys missing...the best part is that the Captains would probably be the reason. Best rank ever.
No. Hence the JOPA patch having a crossed out oak leaf. Plus, I thought in the Marine Corps, JOPA didn't really exist, because even among what the Navy considers "JOs", Captains aren't really peers to the Lts... I mean I've passed by a few Captains with a "What's going on, man?" greeting and I get the same look I get when I say that to SWO LTs... I guess in the Marine Corps, Captains get saluted by Lts? Or is that more a Ground MOS thing?
Officially, USN O-4's are not Field Grade Officers, therefore they are JO's. (Field Grade gets scrambled eggs on their combo covers)
However, in a squadron environment the Department Heads are not considered part of the JO's.
In the typical squadron the O-3 and below make up the JOPA.
In aviation some CO's have mandated that the O-3 and below address O-4's as "LCDR so-and-so", others have allowed O-4's to be addressed by call-signs, some have not cared.
One a ship (SWO world), an O-3 and below will generally call an O-4 by "LCDR so-and-so" or by his position on the ship (e.g. XO, CSO, etc)
I think subs still have an O-4 XO, therefore he'll be called XO.
If you get outside the squadron environment then it sort of depends on where you are; at a COCOM, O-5 and below are what you could consider the JO's.
I went to a "Senior Officer" meeting once out at C5F; a Marine Major walked into the room and there were a lot of Navy O-5's who were just looking at him like he had three heads. The Marine explained that Senior Officer translated to Field Grade, therefore, he should be included since he's Field Grade. He ended up staying for the meeting.
However, in a squadron environment the Department Heads are not considered part of the JO's.
In the typical squadron the O-3 and below make up the JOPA.
In aviation some CO's have mandated that the O-3 and below address O-4's as "LCDR so-and-so", others have allowed O-4's to be addressed by call-signs, some have not cared.
One a ship (SWO world), an O-3 and below will generally call an O-4 by "LCDR so-and-so" or by his position on the ship (e.g. XO, CSO, etc)
I think subs still have an O-4 XO, therefore he'll be called XO.
If you get outside the squadron environment then it sort of depends on where you are; at a COCOM, O-5 and below are what you could consider the JO's.
I went to a "Senior Officer" meeting once out at C5F; a Marine Major walked into the room and there were a lot of Navy O-5's who were just looking at him like he had three heads. The Marine explained that Senior Officer translated to Field Grade, therefore, he should be included since he's Field Grade. He ended up staying for the meeting.
No, JOPA doesn't exist. What Phrogdriver said is correct. I was just curious about the Navy culture, in general. As for Lts vs Captains in the Marines, definitely a difference on the ground side. In the Wing, it's kind of community-driven. Some communities, Lts and Capts can pal around, others it's a sir thing...awaiting phrogdriver's slam on skidguys 
No, JOPA doesn't exist. What Phrogdriver said is correct. I was just curious about the Navy culture, in general. As for Lts vs Captains in the Marines, definitely a difference on the ground side. In the Wing, it's kind of community-driven. Some communities, Lts and Capts can pal around, others it's a sir thing...awaiting phrogdriver's slam on skidguys
Yeah, during the few months I spent in Iwakuni, the Jet Captains seemed a lot more chill about that sorta thing. Maybe it's that with TBS and the TTT in jet-land, most FNGs are basically captains, so they don't weigh the rank that heavily in terms of experience/etc?? Who knows.
While Captain may be the best rank in the Corps (though an argument can be made for Sergeant), it is also the loneliest and most frustrating rank in a squadron. The LPA still needs time to mature, and the Majors are too busy licking windows and comparing the calluses on their knees to be of any use.
No, JOPA doesn't exist. What Phrogdriver said is correct. I was just curious about the Navy culture, in general. As for Lts vs Captains in the Marines, definitely a difference on the ground side. In the Wing, it's kind of community-driven. Some communities, Lts and Capts can pal around, others it's a sir thing...awaiting phrogdriver's slam on skidguys
In my experience the LPA usually includes all the 1stLts and Capts who are waiting for, or still on, their first deployments. In other words, there's a gap between those guys and the next peer group of more senior captains.
What does LPA stand for?
Otto, as helolumpy is alluding to, don't confuse JOPA with Navy JO's.
On the small boys, as an O-4, you run into the same problem as anywhere else. Ask people to call you by your first name and some will and some won't. Sometimes it's tactically (or maybe it's strategic) a good idea not to "friend" some of the SWO DH's because they can barely function to begin with, so if you go to a first name basis, he may think that you didn't REALLY mean for his guys to clean their crap out of the hangar, and you're just saying things to seem official. It makes me feel dirty when I have to go down that road, but sometimes you can't be everyone's friend.
On the small boys, as an O-4, you run into the same problem as anywhere else. Ask people to call you by your first name and some will and some won't. Sometimes it's tactically (or maybe it's strategic) a good idea not to "friend" some of the SWO DH's because they can barely function to begin with, so if you go to a first name basis, he may think that you didn't REALLY mean for his guys to clean their crap out of the hangar, and you're just saying things to seem official. It makes me feel dirty when I have to go down that road, but sometimes you can't be everyone's friend.
Ok!
Eh, all this time I thought it was some kind of a Heliclopter Carrier or sumpin'. No wonder the posts were so confusing! Today's USN acronyms qualify as a 2nd language for Old Farts..*%#)@'^!:icon_boxi
BzB
Eh, all this time I thought it was some kind of a Heliclopter Carrier or sumpin'. No wonder the posts were so confusing! Today's USN acronyms qualify as a 2nd language for Old Farts..*%#)@'^!:icon_boxi
BzB
Might have something to do with the community you come from.
Don't think so ... after the Route Package System was created (to divide up C&C of the respective target areas), the Navy took over the geography in & around Thanh Hoa where the Walleye (something of a guided bomb -- not a missile) did some good work when it was deployed. The early iterations came w/ a 250-1000 # warhead, however, and did not have the punch to specifically drop a heavy, metal girder bridge.
The honor of killing that bastard (the Thanh Hoa bastard) went to A/F F-4s during '72 Linebacker carrying first generation LGB's (big ones, if I'm not mistaken). Memory only -- you should look it up to be sure ... homework assignment ??
Even though the bridge was largely rendered INOP from the '72 LGB F-4 strike, A-7's (don't remember which Air Wing) put the icing on the cake w/ Walleyes (I suspect the bigger version??). The spooks & planners were determined to make sure this 'symbolic target' that had cost dearly for a long time was dead, dead, dead -- thus this largely redundant A-7 strike (even w/ the new, improved 2000# Walleye) put the icing on the cake.
Q.E.D.