2011 accp

[Scoob]

I think it's amusing when, as a group (people in the military), people rally against social programs and government subsidies decreeing the federal government shouldn't be giving handouts. But when they can't get an EXTRA wad of extra cash from the government for doing the same job they already could do, they get irate.

Now don't get me wrong. I've already received my DH bonus and am awaiting the next bonus message on the reserve side and will gladly take it, but it still amuses me.

That position would be a lot more valid had the $25k/yr bonus not been around for the entire career of the guys this cut effects. In this case, I find it hard for anyone to view it as anything other than a paycut, regardless of what the stated intent of the bonus always has been.

 

[Gatordev]

That position would be a lot more valid had the $25k/yr bonus not been around for the entire career of the guys this cut effects. In this case, I find it hard for anyone to view it as anything other than a paycut, regardless of what the stated intent of the bonus always has been.

I understand your sentiment. It was fun to try and answer questions from buds that "stayed in" and took the bonus during the end of their shore tour and then ask, "why are you doing this? You're getting less money (bonus) and still going to sea." And then to run into them 2-3 years later and say, "because I don't have to deal with same crap you've/you're dealing with." The response is usually quite muted.

 

[Scoob]

I understand your sentiment. It was fun to try and answer questions from buds that "stayed in" and took the bonus during the end of their shore tour and then ask, "why are you doing this? You're getting less money (bonus) and still going to sea." And then to run into them 2-3 years later and say, "because I don't have to deal with same crap you've/you're dealing with." The response is usually quite muted.

Don't get me wrong - I'm just showing some empathy for the poor bastards. I got two installments of the 25k before the dudes in the tank decided I didn't need to go back to sea.

 

[hscs]

I may have missed something, but is VFA having retention issues? I don't understand why the VFA pilot bonus should remain the same, while most drop by more than 50%.

 

[Brett327]

I may have missed something, but is VFA having retention issues? I don't understand why the VFA pilot bonus should remain the same, while most drop by more than 50%.

VFA 1310s had a huge (and I mean huge) opt-out rate last cycle for the DH screen.

Brett

 

[A4sForever]

I may have missed something, but is VFA having retention issues? I don't understand why the VFA pilot bonus should remain the same, while most drop by more than 50%.

Substitute VA and VF for "VFA" ... then re-wind the question to the late '70s .... the result: same-o, same-o ...

See 'ya on "the line", guys ...

The more things change ... ???

 

[smittyrunr]

Can anyone explain the VAQ math? If you're going from 3 NFOs to 1 per aircraft, I'm curious why the NFO bonus will be higher.

What I found most interesting was that maybe they really trying to get smart about money- by not offering a lump sum and cutting back the amount you can get before actually selecting.

I'm not sure giving up the ability to decide to stay in or get out is worth $36K after taxes.

 

[Brett327]

Can anyone explain the VAQ math? If you're going from 3 NFOs to 1 per aircraft, I'm curious why the NFO bonus will be higher.

What I found most interesting was that maybe they really trying to get smart about money- by not offering a lump sum and cutting back the amount you can get before actually selecting.

I'm not sure giving up the ability to decide to stay in or get out is worth $36K after taxes.

You're looking at a very narrow slice of the community at large (1 or 2 YG) with this year's message. The bonus numbers reflect the relative manning in just those YGs, not the VAQ community in general. Lots of the designator adjustment (from 3 to 1 NFO per crew) has already taken place. Additionally, there has been an influx of senior LT and LCDR 1310s from the VFA community during the transition. With this in mind, the numbers make more sense.

Brett

 

[smittyrunr]

OK, I had heard about the VFA transition folk, so that does make a little more sense

 

[NightVisionPen]

Supposedly there is a massive pilot shortage looming. It has been in several magazines. They also talk about the state of flight training and how civilian enrollment is at an all time low with very small percentages going on to finish even their private license. I'll believe it when companies like FedEx are struggling to find pilots rather than getting what, 15,000 applicants for 200 spots this year?

I know plenty of VFA guys turning down department head and it will take a lot more than $25k extra to stop that. Optempo and cutting back on back on the number of pilots per squadron are making the lifestyle tougher. Add to that the requirement to get outmofmthe cockpit that wasn't there about six years ago and dudes are bailing.

Because the bonus has been around for so long it has become an expected part of the salary. I remember a guy saying that the bonus doesn't keep him in, but reducing it or getting rid of it will sure help him decide to get out.

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Give a man a fish every day for 15 years and you try to stop, he says "where is my damn fish?"

 

[A4sForever]

Supposedly there is a massive pilot shortage looming... I'll believe it when companies like FedEx are struggling to find pilots rather than getting what, 15,000 applicants for 200 spots this year...

What you're not getting is that only 3000 +/- of the 15,000 applicants are "qualified" in the sense of a short time to train & being a proven, reliable quantity. Don't believe it ??? I screened & interviewed prospects for 2 major airlines ... nothing's changed; never has ... never will.

UNLESS it gets to the point where airlines are hiring 200 hour 'wonder kids' like United did 50 years ago ... it didn't work too well for them, by the way.

 

[zippy]

A couple years ago at the MPRF reunion, Satan's detailers said that by their calculations, the bonus only made a difference in 25% of the individuals who decided to stay- and that most of them were going to stay regardless. It will be interesting to see how badly they miscalculated. My interest in going back to the community to be a #2 DH cannon fodder for the community golden child, followed by community bitch tours until retirement, is now 40% of what it used to be... I talked to a department head recently who was seriously considering paying back his bonus and retiring because of shitty detailing options following their tour. Its going to be a lot easier for individuals to do the same thing with a smaller bonus amount as well.

 

[Pags]

A couple years ago at the MPRF reunion, Satan's detailers said that by their calculations, the bonus only made a difference in 25% of the individuals who decided to stay- and that most of them were going to stay regardless. It will be interesting to see how badly they miscalculated. My interest in going back to the community to be a #2 DH cannon fodder for the community golden child, followed by community bitch tours until retirement, is now 40% of what it used to be... I talked to a department head recently who was seriously considering paying back his bonus and retiring because of shitty detailing options following their tour. Its going to be a lot easier for individuals to do the same thing with a smaller bonus amount as well.

It will be interesting to see how this year's O5 board works out, but there are plenty of people at my squadron who are post-DH tour O4s wondering what to do next. The "standard community pipeline" for all communities gets kind of thin once you don't screen for CO. A lot of times it just says "SEA/OVERSEAS." The guys I work with were talking about how them having to go back to sea to make 20 and retire as an O4 is a lot of work for not a lot of payoff. In the past you at least stood a very solid chance of making O5 and running out the clock to retire as a CDR. After last year's O5 select rate, who knows?

 

[BigIron]

It will be interesting to see how this year's O5 board works out, but there are plenty of people at my squadron who are post-DH tour O4s wondering what to do next. The "standard community pipeline" for all communities gets kind of thin once you don't screen for CO. A lot of times it just says "SEA/OVERSEAS." The guys I work with were talking about how them having to go back to sea to make 20 and retire as an O4 is a lot of work for not a lot of payoff. In the past you at least stood a very solid chance of making O5 and running out the clock to retire as a CDR. After last year's O5 select rate, who knows?

I think that's why it is important to try and get some new skill set post DH on shore, like an acquisitions type assignment or similar before the ACSB. At least there are options when you find out you're not going to be a CO.

 

[EODDave]

GatorDev,

It easy for you to find it amusing AFTER you got yours. DH has to be one of the shittiest jobs in the Navy. Why would a guy want to take on a shit tour (depending on who you work for) and 2-3 more years of BS without being compensated when they can get out of the Navy and do something else. Yes, I am well aware that their is BS in the civilian world. However, its easier to take that BS knowing you'll be at home most nights, wont miss important family events and can walk anytime if you want. If the economy even shows the slightest improvement in the next year or so, the Navy is going to have some of its best and brightest going elsewhere.