All things MV-22 Osprey

[Lawman]

So is there any new word if the Navy is actually gonna pick some of these up? According to a pamphlet left in the ready room, their on the hook for several.

I think it'd be a fun aircraft to fly. Glad to hear it's doing well.

I think the big thing keeping them from taking a bite is the same reason the Coast Guard is leary of it, cost vs benefit. The Jayhawk pilot that spoke up about this on another thread said basically it would be a great platform to add to their bag of tricks but it in no way would be an ideal replacement for anything they had. Biggest problem he had with it was the idea of doing a winch out the back. Apparently the wash in hover is just not compatable with a basket. Also the aircraft is significantly larger then what they really need for the SAR job. And as another member brought up in the Tailhook 91 thread the idea of using it as an ASW platform met with a lot of trouble from that community. Really outside of a limited number of aircraft to do special operation type missions (a la special boat squadrons, etc) I cant see the Navy really needing this aircraft. They dont need to put a force ashore over the horizon like the Marines. Its arguably useless as a sling platform as there are plenty of other far cheaper helos that can do the job and not be ignoring some of the big advantages the aircraft has like speed and range. Just seems like an answer to a question nobody is asking.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Though it seems like it'd be a halfway-decent COD/VOD plane. Long(ish) range, can haul a decent amount of mail and pax, hop over to the big-deck gators (and CRUDES boats, maybe) if needs be. Never heard it talked about doing that mission, though. Any COD guys know why? Bunky?

 

[HooverPilot]

Though it seems like it'd be a halfway-decent COD/VOD plane. Long(ish) range, can haul a decent amount of mail and pax, hop over to the big-deck gators (and CRUDES boats, maybe) if needs be. Never heard it talked about doing that mission, though. Any COD guys know why? Bunky?

NOT the right answer for the COD replacement. The Navy recently completed the Analysis of Options for the C-2 replacement and the V-22 was not the right answer. Unpressurized, incompatible with cyclic ops, CVN flight deck mods required, etc all added up to the airframe being at best an 80% answer. The AoA looked at many options including bringing back miss piggy, using existing airframes and a clean sheet design. Something along the lines of a C-2B was final determination. Of course there is no program online as of yet for the replacement, but the funding is being put in place in the next few budgets to get it going... Current airframe life expectency of the C-2A is rather optimistic and data is being collected for a re-assesment.

 

[Uncle Fester]

I can see the unpressurized thing being an issue, but how's that with the cyclic ops and flight deck mods? At the rate they're going, seems like an 80% answer now is better than waiting for the C-2B.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Seems like that would be an advantage - just have to set helo flight quarters instead of full flight quarters.

 

[Lawman]

Seems like that would be an advantage - just have to set helo flight quarters instead of full flight quarters.

Yeah but its going to cut down on your available gross. Not exactly a good thing when were talking about a primary mission of cargo/people hauler.

 

[VetteMuscle427]

NOT the right answer for the COD replacement. The Navy recently completed the Analysis of Options for the C-2 replacement and the V-22 was not the right answer. Unpressurized, incompatible with cyclic ops, CVN flight deck mods required, etc all added up to the airframe being at best an 80% answer. The AoA looked at many options including bringing back miss piggy, using existing airframes and a clean sheet design. Something along the lines of a C-2B was final determination. Of course there is no program online as of yet for the replacement, but the funding is being put in place in the next few budgets to get it going... Current airframe life expectency of the C-2A is rather optimistic and data is being collected for a re-assesment.

I thought they were pressurized? And how good is the COD's pressurization?

And with the S-3 community finishing Sundown soon... why not take another look at the V-22 now?

 

[MasterBates]

What is Miss Piggy?

 

[HeyJoe]

What is Miss Piggy?

There were several S-3A Vikings modified to US-3A configuration (no MAD boom and no ejection seats) to perform COD mission (part of PI based VRC-50 COD outfit) that operated on Diego Garcia to North Arabian Sea carriers in the 80s. We had two supporting USS America during 83 NAS deployment. There were big blivets for cargo and a few passenger seats. Somewhere along the line, 712 picked up nickname of "Miss Piggy" (note artwork above the MODEX). I don't think there were more than 2-4 of them total.

USN Photo by PH1 Foster

 

[MasterBates]

So you can lose ALL you clothes?

 

[skidkid]

I want a blivet like that!

Carry more than one Mk 82 for more than 15 minutes then eat all your vegetables and we will see what Santa can do for you.

 

[HooverPilot]

Miss Piggy doesn't have the capacity for the volume or gross weight that the COD transports. COD takes up to 26 pax, Miss Piggy 4 (I think). COD can also carry up to 8400lbs of cargo, more than those blivets can carry. (I've flown with those blivets, nice but not high enough gross). The bulky cargo also would be ruled out.

As for the V-22, it would be like taking a -52 on deck. Nothing else can go on. That means only before flight ops or you have to have a large break in cyclic ops to take it on the carrier. As for the flight deck mods, it is my understanding that a V-22 turning on deck for an extended period in helicopter mode will burn up the deck. Over to the V-22 guys for comment on the veracity of this info. The V-22 would not be able to support the carrier in many of the theaters that it works in now. The long hits required for OEF would not be possible without a new base in the region. Think that is likely?

 

[Uncle Fester]

You do make good points about the Osprey's limitations as a COD, but it seems like even odds whether the C-2B program goes anywhere before the current CODs start falling out of the sky. We're buying the damn things anyway, why not hedge bets, get a few COD-22s and see how it works? Wost thing that happens is we give 'em back to the Marines.

 

[HooverPilot]

I don't think that in this day and age that this would be feasible. Money is too tight. Yes, the Navy did it with Miss Piggy, but there wasn't the budget pressures then that we have today.

 

[illinijoe05]

Cant the Osprey carry almost 2.5 times the cargo as a COD (approx 20000lbs). Doesnt that make it more capable in one respect. Also how much less is its range vs a COD?