And the PRT changes yet again

[Jim123]

Part of it might be the commissioning standards to pass the PRT are more stringent than the any old fatty can pass the PRT standards, and the height-weight charts don't really work with a defensive lineman build (maybe different now that they introduced 40" waist is a pass or whatever the latest is), but.. yeah, it's kind of oxymoronic.

 

[Spekkio]

I always find the notion of athletes struggling to pass the PFA amusing. Seems contradictory to the term athlete but I get that they've tuned their bodies to very specific requirements of their sport.

When I played lacrosse I could run a lap at around 50 seconds but I couldn't run 1.5 miles straight at the time. It was more mental boredom and pacing than anything else.

 

[Pags]

When I played lacrosse I could run a lap at around 50 seconds but I couldn't run 1.5 miles straight at the time. It was more mental boredom and pacing than anything else.

Yeah, I totally get it. I used to swim but wasn't much of a runner. It's just amusing to consider that D1 athletes can't pass a commissioning physical. Which I think says more about the PFA and what the USN focuses on.

 

[jointhelocalizer]

I think it is definitely a product of the increased attention on sports. Like it or not, sports brings people in, athletes and non-athletes alike. So there’s an added incentive to allowing athletes whose positions/events require specific body types to have accommodations.

I think an interesting debate question would be if the Academy should change its physical standards to have either an Academy standard with age accommodations or move to Fleet standards. On one end, exemplary physical fitness is definitely desired in officers. However, why should the Navy lose their investment when they separate a 25 yr old prior who would have passed in the Fleet since they couldn’t pass the 10:30/12:40 (M/F) 1.5 mi run time without any age accommodation.

 

[Pags]

I think it is definitely a product of the increased attention on sports. Like it or not, sports brings people in, athletes and non-athletes alike. So there’s an added incentive to allowing athletes whose positions/events require specific body types to have accommodations.

I think an interesting debate question would be if the Academy should change its physical standards to have either an Academy standard with age accommodations or move to Fleet standards. On one end, exemplary physical fitness is definitely desired in officers. However, why should the Navy lose their investment when they separate a 25 yr old prior who would have passed in the Fleet since they couldn’t pass the 10:30/12:40 (M/F) 1.5 mi run time without any age accommodation.

While I can see some niche athletes like football centers, power lifters, etc have an issue with height/weight standards and the run I'd still find it hard to believe that your average/non-athlete 25yr old who spent the past four years in a military academy not be able to run a 10:30 1.5mi run.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

I think it is definitely a product of the increased attention on sports. Like it or not, sports brings people in, athletes and non-athletes alike. So there’s an added incentive to allowing athletes whose positions/events require specific body types to have accommodations.

I think an interesting debate question would be if the Academy should change its physical standards to have either an Academy standard with age accommodations or move to Fleet standards. On one end, exemplary physical fitness is definitely desired in officers. However, why should the Navy lose their investment when they separate a 25 yr old prior who would have passed in the Fleet since they couldn’t pass the 10:30/12:40 (M/F) 1.5 mi run time without any age accommodation.

How could you expect a 25 year old to keep up with those young 22 year olds

 

[Rudy.30]

How could you expect a 25 year old to keep up with those young 22 year olds

No one expects them to.. They have diffrent standards.. ?

 

[Treetop Flyer]

No one expects them to.. They have diffrent standards.. ?

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Oh I know, I just think it’s kinda weird. No one asked but the max score for 3 miles stays 18 minutes until you’re over 40. At 26 the min score goes from 27:40 to 28:00, which is largely irrelevant because it’s almost impossible to get a first class with that

 

[nittany03]

On one end, exemplary physical fitness is definitely desired in officers.

A certain level of physical fitness is desired in officers. As in you shouldn't look like a bag of donuts in uniform. But in the fleet, at some point well before "exemplary," there are a lot of other things much more important. I'll take a relatively normal human being who can take care of Sailors and who is technically and tactically exemplary over an Amazon or Hercules who can't/isn't.

I don't care how many pushups you can do or how good you'd look on a recruiting poster if you're a toxic leader or tactically inept.

 

[jointhelocalizer]

A certain level of physical fitness is desired in officers. As in you shouldn't look like a bag of donuts in uniform. But in the fleet, at some point well before "exemplary," there are a lot of other things much more important. I'll take a relatively normal human being who can take care of Sailors and who is technically and tactically exemplary over an Amazon or Hercules who can't/isn't.

I don't care how many pushups you can do or how good you'd look on a recruiting poster if you're a toxic leader or tactically inept.

I probably could have used a better word than exemplary. Didn't mean to suggest that officers have to all be GI Joes. I definitely agree that leadership/competence should be the main metrics of good officership. I was mainly driving at the point you just made: leadership over fitness. Being a USNA alum, I have seen some good leaders as MIDN get the boot for passing Fleet standards, but not meeting the Academy standard. I did a year of ROTC before USNA and we did the Fleet PFA.

 

[Spekkio]

A certain level of physical fitness is desired in officers. As in you shouldn't look like a bag of donuts in uniform. But in the fleet, at some point well before "exemplary," there are a lot of other things much more important. I'll take a relatively normal human being who can take care of Sailors and who is technically and tactically exemplary over an Amazon or Hercules who can't/isn't.

I don't care how many pushups you can do or how good you'd look on a recruiting poster if you're a toxic leader or tactically inept.

The PRT standards should be excellent low across the board. If you're going to say sailors don't need to be fit to do their I jobs I'll point to the Miami fire where out of shape sailors sucked down 30 min scba bottles in 15 minutes to the detriment of overall casualty response. This isn't to impugn their efforts or bravery, but the fact is that we weren't physically ready for that casualty. I'll also point to the FDNY fitness test that is brutal by Navy PRT standards.

The standards are crafted against dubious research that someone with a sat medium is more fit than 50% of the population and has a reduced chance of heart disease and diabetes. In the next year or two, over half the country will be classified as obese. Passing the PRT with minimum scores takes almost no physical fitness regimen. Passing with an excellent low across the board actually requires people to maintain a regular fitness routine.

As a result of the lax standards we are the fattest military service. The Navy ought to be shooting for better than this.

 

[AllAmerican75]

The PRT standards should be excellent low across the board. If you're going to say sailors don't need to be fit to do their I jobs I'll point to the Miami fire where out of shape sailors sucked down 30 min scba bottles in 15 minutes to the detriment of overall casualty response. This isn't to impugn their efforts or bravery, but the fact is that we weren't physically ready for that casualty. I'll also point to the FDNY fitness test that is brutal by Navy PRT standards.

The standards are crafted against dubious research that someone with a sat medium is more fit than 50% of the population and has a reduced chance of heart disease and diabetes. In the next year or two, over half the country will be classified as obese. Passing the PRT with minimum scores takes almost no physical fitness regimen. Passing with an excellent low across the board actually requires people to maintain a regular fitness routine.

As a result of the lax standards we are the fattest military service. The Navy ought to be shooting for better than this.

Then we need to radically change the way we think about PT. Most ships I've seen do away with PT time all together. There's too much extraneous bullshit we place on our people. If you want everyone to have an excellent low, then you better be having guaranteed time to PT during the day where that's all the crew has to worry about. That's how the SEALs, EOD, and Seabees do it and they're all generally fit. The reason we're all so out of shape on the waterfront is nobody cares about PT when there's ATG and other nonsense going on. Hell, I've been yelled at for not being in shape and for taking some time to PT by the same department head on the same day. Until that kind of attitude gets fixed then we'll have our Sailors be out of shape.

 

[Spekkio]

Then we need to radically change the way we think about PT. Most ships I've seen do away with PT time all together. There's too much extraneous bullshit we place on our people. If you want everyone to have an excellent low, then you better be having guaranteed time to PT during the day where that's all the crew has to worry about. That's how the SEALs, EOD, and Seabees do it and they're all generally fit. The reason we're all so out of shape on the waterfront is nobody cares about PT when there's ATG and other nonsense going on. Hell, I've been yelled at for not being in shape and for taking some time to PT by the same department head on the same day. Until that kind of attitude gets fixed then we'll have our Sailors be out of shape.

Your attitude is part of the problem. We need to get to a point where it's not unreasonable to ask someone to use some of their personal time to maintain a minimum standard of physical fitness. Excellent low doesn't take a SEAL level of fitness, it just takes a normal, balanced exercise routine. In 12 years in the Navy I haven't PT'd once during the work day outside of OCS. I could take the attitude of FTN and get fat while complaining that my CO doesn't give me time to PT, or I could do some physical activity in my off time that's good for me and the Navy.

Quite frankly I don't really want command PT. I see the sailors who do it and there's way too much waiting around to do some basic calisthenics. At the end of the day it's an ineffective and inefficient routine.

 

[AllAmerican75]

Your attitude is part of the problem. We need to get to a point where it's not unreasonable to ask someone to use some of their personal time to maintain a minimum standard of physical fitness. Excellent low doesn't take a SEAL level of fitness, it just takes a normal, balanced exercise routine. In 12 years in the Navy I haven't PT'd once during the work day outside of OCS. I could take the attitude of FTN and get fat while complaining that my CO doesn't give me time to PT, or I could do some physical activity in my off time that's good for me and the Navy.

Quite frankly I don't really want command PT. I see the sailors who do it and there's way too much waiting around to do some basic calisthenics. At the end of the day it's an ineffective and inefficient routine.

So when I'm working from 0700 to 1700 (aside from duty days) or when I'm underway and working what is essentially a 24 hour schedule, what should I sacrifice to go workout? Sleep time? Family time? Time when I need to run errands just to live my life? If you expect me to get an excellent low (Especially for the aforementioned lineman types like myself) then you better give me time to PT or at least make it a priority ahead of SAPR, records keeping GMT, PB4T that takes 4 hours, and other nonsense.

The best PT program I ever saw was on USS UNDERWOOD (FFG 36). There were two 2 hour blocks in the daily schedule, one before lunch and one before dinner. During those blocks you were either working or at the gym. Absolutely no lounging around in the berthing allowed. I was actually able to work out 4-5 times a week, even underway. And that's with scheduling around DC drills, watch, and PQS study time. The fact of the matter is that we need white space in the ship's schedule to make PT work. Group PT is inefficient but at least it holds time sacred for Sailors to workout during.

 

[FinkUFreaky]

I made a long post and decided (for once with my better judgement) to condense it to this. My five year plan 5 years ago was to run 15 miles. COVID shortened it to 12 (Thanks!). When I have to do IA training twice almost every fucking year because something requires it to be done in the current fiscal year (ie after 01 OCT; for example going to the boat and then they decide to release the new training in December or January (every freaking year; why is it not possible to put the re-hashed program out by 01OCT???)), and it must be done again bc of the new version (same as the old!), I'd agree that priorities should be shifted to more fitness... But at the expense of some of the Bullshit.