Another nail in the coffin of Old-School Naval Avaition..

[MasterBates]

Basically, the Admirals acknowledged that going more restrictive with the wear of flight suits, with nothing in return was a shitty deal for us.

Which may open the door to more "standardization" (my opinion)

They said they were working on it, but I get the feeling with some comments about there not having been (or going to be) an aviation CNO for a long time, that it's going to be a hard sell to the CNO.(paraphrased from their words)

Or the 2 civilians and retired Master Chief who make up the uniform board (my opinion)

Don't ask me for direct quotes. I was shitfaced when I asked.

 

[Recovering LSO]

but I get the feeling with some comments about there not having been (or going to be) an aviation CNO for a long time, that it's going to be a hard sell to the CNO.(paraphrased from their words)

Don't ask me for direct quotes. I was shitfaced when I asked.

Maybe the lack of an aviation CNO would help... Something he just wouldn't give a shit about. But then again, maybe i'm giving shoes too much credit there.

I'm still looking for someone to raise their hand and say "yeah, i want to wear my bag out in town - and I just can't get by under the current rules. I need to go grocery shopping in my bag. I need to go all over in town wearing a bag so everyone knows I'm Tom Cruise cool. In fact I want it so badly that I'm down with the new rules...."

BTW, best Hook plan ever: leave on Saturday around 1700. Nothing good ever happens when you stay 'til Sunday. Did it last year and was angry with myself that it took so many years to figure it out.

 

[MasterBates]

I'd just like to be able to run errands in my bag. Some places, like the DMV just are NOT open when I am not working.

 

[Brett327]

Maybe the lack of an aviation CNO would help... Something he just wouldn't give a shit about. But then again, maybe i'm giving shoes too much credit there.

I'm still looking for someone to raise their hand and say "yeah, i want to wear my bag out in town - and I just can't get by under the current rules. I need to go grocery shopping in my bag. I need to go all over in town wearing a bag so everyone knows I'm Tom Cruise cool. In fact I want it so badly that I'm down with the new rules...."

BTW, best Hook plan ever: leave on Saturday around 1700. Nothing good ever happens when you stay 'til Sunday. Did it last year and was angry with myself that it took so many years to figure it out.

I'm with you (I think). I don't see what the big imperative is for wearing flight suits in town. Who the fuck cares? I realize some people have long commutes, but when I'm done at work, I change into real people clothes and take care of business. If you have errands to run halfway between work and home, figure it out. DMV? How often does one do that? I don't recall going in the last 15 years (they're online now, BTW). I get the whole "Hey Johnny public loves him some flight suits," argument, individual anecdotes aside, that's a red herring and everyone knows it. Let's not all pretend that if we started roaming around in our flight suits, the general public would engage in some kind of collective orgasm of patriotism and compell their children to enlist in the Navy.

Now, I'm not sure how our T-shirt "standardization" helps anything and I do agree that it detracts from the ability of squadrons to forge their own unique identities - something infinitely more important than wearing bags in town. So, let's review: we want to be MORE like the USAF and wear bags in town, but less like them and have "individuality" amongst the myriad squadrons. Hmm.

Brett

 

[MasterBates]

I was thinking more along the lines of if we have to wear them like the AF, might as well at least get the benefits.

The "REAL" value I think would be the lack of occasional harassment from non aviation Officers and Chiefs from all areas who seem to live to harass the LTs who go into Burger King to unfuck their order after going through the drive thru in a bag.

I got chewed out by a SWO Captain (who was wearing the blue inflato-jacket with NWU pants, which is not to be worn off base either) for walking into an auto parts store to get a part to fix my truck when I broke a U-Joint on 264.

Also, it seems about every 10th hospital/specialist visit, I will have some random medical type have an issue with me being in a "working/utility uniform" even though the bulk of the rest of the people are in NWU.

I no shit, had an appointment with oncology after having surgery where I was going to be told whether I had cancer or not, and got harassed for wearing a bag by a fat HMC. Yeah.. I've got enough on my mind bitch.. I really don't care if you feel my flight suit is "unprofessional".. I figured if I had to be in uniform, I'd be comfortable.

The bulk of my "official visits not at my hangar" like ship/TACTS/medical... Nobody cares about the flight suit. But those who do.. Holy shit do they suck.

 

[Swanee]

Don't ask me for direct quotes. I was shitfaced when I asked.

Old Guy sitting next to me says," That young man either did it right and is still drunk from last night or he's really fired up!"

To which I replied- probably a little of both, sir.

You did get the best audience response to any question asked.

 

[Brett327]

I was thinking more along the lines of if we have to wear them like the AF, might as well at least get the benefits.

The "REAL" value I think would be the lack of occasional harassment from non aviation Officers and Chiefs from all areas who seem to live to harass the LTs who go into Burger King to unfuck their order after going through the drive thru in a bag.

I got chewed out by a SWO Captain (who was wearing the blue inflato-jacket with NWU pants, which is not to be worn off base either) for walking into an auto parts store to get a part to fix my truck when I broke a U-Joint on 264.

Also, it seems about every 10th hospital/specialist visit, I will have some random medical type have an issue with me being in a "working/utility uniform" even though the bulk of the rest of the people are in NWU.

I no shit, had an appointment with oncology after having surgery where I was going to be told whether I had cancer or not, and got harassed for wearing a bag by a fat HMC. Yeah.. I've got enough on my mind bitch.. I really don't care if you feel my flight suit is "unprofessional".. I figured if I had to be in uniform, I'd be comfortable.

The bulk of my "official visits not at my hangar" like ship/TACTS/medical... Nobody cares about the flight suit. But those who do.. Holy shit do they suck.

Here's the thing: I don't sport my Flight Suit off base, never have. Consequently, I've never been hassled about it. I'm also the guy who, despite the various trials and tribulations of my friends, have neer been hassled by a CPO about my uniform - ever. Now, don't get me wrong, I love to parade around half mast like the next guy, but somehow, I'm never bothered. I've got 22 years worth of comebacks saved up, ready to go. Some people scream to be fucked with, others have a personna which says, don't fuck with me.

Brett

 

[Uncle Fester]

The really stupid thing is, most of the flight-suit rule retardedness stems from the "working uniform" thing. Or to be more precise, the 60+ years time-late definition of working uniform. The NUB still acts like we're a service that changes out of working khaki to eat in the wardroom or go off the ship.

The no-bags-off-base rule is stupid because there's no point to it. 99% of bags you see worn on a daily basis are presentable. Why exactly can't you wear it to go eat lunch? And give me a reason besides "It's a working uniform, and working uniforms aren't worn off-base," which is the actual official reason.

One of the things I've always liked about the Navy is that, as a service, generally speaking, we dress up when it's time to dress up and wear work clothes when it's time to work. This hand-wringing over whether our work clothes look nice and dress-code rules smacks of office-pinky nonsense (i.e., the Air Force).

 

[insanebikerboy]

I'm with Brett on this one. I would much rather keep the unique squadron identities and not turn into the Air Force with their rules on bags. I can count on one hand the number of times since I've been flying that I've had to bring a change of clothes to work because I needed to go somewhere else after I was done.

Yes, I've run in to get food to go at lunch, and the one time out of umpteen times I've done it and got hassled, I simple said "regs allow brief stops", shut him up real quick.

 

[Pugs]

I would much rather keep the unique squadron identities and not turn into the Air Force with their rules on bags.

Too late. You now have the regulation without the benefit and it's not going to go back. I spent the last half of my career on an overwhelmingly USAF base. We simply went native wrt bags but I understand that's not an option for most.

 

[wink]

So since the black T-shirt is mandatory I guess that means one can not wear a safer alternative like an aramid long sleeve undershirt or even a 100% cotton flight deck jersey. Back in the day we were issued aramid including long johns. I usually worn a white aramid undershirt and when it was cold, or I wanted to sport the squadron colors, it was a red flight deck Jersey or later at another squadron, a black one (white dyed black per squadron SOP). Any trendy fashion conscience aircrew wearing their black underarmour or other "performance" t-shirts would do well to remember how that stuff performs when a flame is put to it.

 

[lowflier03]

So since the black T-shirt is mandatory I guess that means one can not wear a safer alternative like an aramid long sleeve undershirt or even a 100% cotton flight deck jersey. Back in the day we were issued aramid including long johns. I usually worn a white aramid undershirt and when it was cold, or I wanted to sport the squadron colors, it was a red flight deck Jersey or later at another squadron, a black one (white dyed black per squadron SOP). Any trendy fashion conscience aircrew wearing their black underarmour or other "performance" t-shirts would do well to remember how that stuff performs when a flame is put to it.

Tell that to the AW's that are required fly in a neoprene wetsuit.

 

[HeloBubba]

Tell that to the AW's that are required fly in a neoprene wetsuit.

But we used to wear them underneath a flightsuit....you know....for the nomex that was in it. Is that no longer the case?

 

[insanebikerboy]

Tell that to the AW's that are required fly in a neoprene wetsuit.

Why not just wear the swimmer's dryfire shirt?

 

[fc2spyguy]

Why not just wear the swimmer's dryfire shirt?

My understanding is that water temp has to be greater than 70 degrees for the dryfire shirt to be the only layer. So, around Norfolk that's a small percentage of the year.