But I sniveled!!!

[Gatordev]

so now we have to go back to waiting until 6pm the night before (sometimes 7...) to see if we have a 0530 brief.

Yeah, just like the fleet....or the way it's been in the training command since the dawn of time.

Hadn't heard about the med down thing. That makes sense, from a programming perspective, but definitely dumb from a "X" perspective. I agree, there's some hangups, but just the fact that I can accidentally type a comment in the wrong grade section, and then copy and paste said comment to the right section is worth the price of admission.

 

[Rg9]

Please excuse my lack of experience, but it just doesn't make sense to me that a schedule needs to be hidden until 12 hours prior to the beginning of the next day. That seems like pain for the sake of pain. I understand that's how it was, and obviously it can work. But why does it have to be that way? Especially when it's clear it's not a final schedule, and when we're in a training command.

(The obvious answer is that people went off the preliminary schedule, or that Scheds got too many complaints before they finished it. The solution doesn't have to be yanking the ability to see the schedule, however. If students can't be officers and be responsible enough to check the official schedule later... well... they shouldn't be officers.)

 

[A4sForever]

Please excuse my lack of experience, but it just doesn't make sense to me that a schedule needs to be hidden until 12 hours prior ....But why does it have to be that way?

WOW, I haven't seen a guy who is so self-involved for quite a while, military OR airline.

You just said it. Your lack of experience dictates that it doesn't "make sense" to you. But it isn't as much "about you" as you seem to think. And it's nothing "personal" nor "pain for the sake of pain" .... good grief.

One of the toughest things to do is to write a daily FLTSKED for 150-or-so STUDs with all the variables taken into account (ground school, WX glitches, A/C availability, STUDs SIQ, MX availability, FLT DOWNS, target times, BOAT schedules, leave schedules, you have to get flight # X before you can fly flight # Y, etc., etc.) and make it all WORK.

It's a daily exercise in futility and frustration .... especially in the TRACOM ... let alone a Fleet squadron with "only" 10-30 Aviators.

The solution as a STUD??? Stay prepared for at least 1-2 hops in advance and you will stay ahead of the game.

It doesn't get any easier. In the squadron, the next days SKED is frequently "late". In airline's training cycles, the SKED usually doesn't arrive at the hotel prior to 1800 hours ... it never changes.

 

[Huggy Bear]

Be thankful. The Navy could do like Air Force UPT where they just keep you around 12 hours a day regardless of whether you are scheduled or not. That would solve the problem of needing a good schedule since you could always find a stud waiting around for the next flight. I'll take the Navy way anyday.

 

[Gatordev]

Words

Well said/summarized. In the fleet, it's because it's just not done yet.

(The obvious answer is that people went off the preliminary schedule, or that Scheds got too many complaints before they finished it. The solution doesn't have to be yanking the ability to see the schedule, however. If students can't be officers and be responsible enough to check the official schedule later... well... they shouldn't be officers.)

That's a large part of it. TIMS and being able to see the schedule is a new thing. Maybe it will come back in time, but historically, it just wasn't something that could be done. Even STASS had issues when IPs would do it. Sometimes it would dump the whole schedule. I think you mentioned it earlier, but I can't remember which squadron you're in. I know one of the squadrons had multiple studs call skeds on their own (not from the FDO) and reminding/telling skeds that there's a conflict on the unfinished schedule. No sh!t, genius, that's why it's unfinished!

In the fleet, sometimes you can go up and get a sneak preview, but often times it just pisses off your fellow JOs (and AWs if you have them) when you interrupt them. They want it out even more than you do so they can go home.

 

[MasterBates]

In the fleet, sometimes you can go up and get a sneak preview, but often times it just pisses off your fellow JOs (and AWs if you have them) when you interrupt them. They want it out even more than you do so they can go home.

As the Senior Skeds Writer for 14 months, I can vouch for that.

Hints for working in Skeds:

Go to the OPSO/AOPS with a SOLUTION to go with the "Problem". This applies to a LOT of things in life. I should have learned that sooner.

Identify the meddling LCDRs. Sked them to fly from 1200-1800. That way you can get them out of your hair so you can finish it.

Friday FCF is a DH responsibility. Preferably the MO. :icon_smil

SHARP will do the Sked. LEARN HOW TO USE IT. I took 6 months to get the command to allow me to use feature that is included with a program we HAVE to use anyways.. Sked magically came out 2-3 hours faster! No more Double Sked, Name Misspelled, or AC flying twice at the same time.

 

[Gatordev]

I think that's a module they install separately.

 

[Goober]

I think that's a module they install separately.

Apparently in knows everyone else "has to take someone to the airport" that afternoon.

 

[bert]

Hints for working in Skeds:

I'll add one more to that. Put a nice big sign above your desk saying that if it is after 1200, then they do not have a "really good idea to include in tomorrow's schedule."

 

[Huggy Bear]

As the Senior Skeds Writer for 14 months, I can vouch for that.

Hints for working in Skeds:

Go to the OPSO/AOPS with a SOLUTION to go with the "Problem". This applies to a LOT of things in life. I should have learned that sooner.

Identify the meddling LCDRs. Sked them to fly from 1200-1800. That way you can get them out of your hair so you can finish it.

Friday FCF is a DH responsibility. Preferably the MO. :icon_smil

SHARP will do the Sked. LEARN HOW TO USE IT. I took 6 months to get the command to allow me to use feature that is included with a program we HAVE to use anyways.. Sked magically came out 2-3 hours faster! No more Double Sked, Name Misspelled, or AC flying twice at the same time.

Amen Brutha. When I was a fleet squadron skeds O, the JOs were great, it was the O-4s and 5s that were always the problem children. The O-4s always had the most snivels and the O-5s wouldn't tell you their snivs until after the schedule was already written.

 

[Rg9]

WOW, I haven't seen a guy who is so self-involved for quite a while, military OR airline.

You just said it. Your lack of experience dictates that it doesn't "make sense" to you. But it isn't as much "about you" as you seem to think. And it's nothing "personal" nor "pain for the sake of pain" .... good grief.

One of the toughest things to do is to write a daily FLTSKED for 150-or-so STUDs with all the variables taken into account (ground school, WX glitches, A/C availability, STUDs SIQ, MX availability, FLT DOWNS, target times, BOAT schedules, leave schedules, you have to get flight # X before you can fly flight # Y, etc., etc.) and make it all WORK.

It's a daily exercise in futility and frustration .... especially in the TRACOM ... let alone a Fleet squadron with "only" 10-30 Aviators.

The solution as a STUD??? Stay prepared for at least 1-2 hops in advance and you will stay ahead of the game.

It doesn't get any easier. In the squadron, the next days SKED is frequently "late". In airline's training cycles, the SKED usually doesn't arrive at the hotel prior to 1800 hours ... it never changes.

But none of what you said speaks to the point about viewing the preliminary schedule. I don't think it's an attitude of "it's all about me" to want to be best prepared.

And yes, I am thankful we don't train like the Air Force. Still, why not make a good thing better?

 

[dodge]

But none of what you said speaks to the point about viewing the preliminary schedule. I don't think it's an attitude of "it's all about me" to want to be best prepared.

And yes, I am thankful we don't train like the Air Force. Still, why not make a good thing better?

Yeah but that being said, the primary syllabus follows a pretty normal flow, at least when i went through. You usually had a pretty good idea about what flight you had next, and you might as well study for it. Worst case it's at 0600. Best case, your not scheduled (i loved those days).

 

[Rg9]

One example from my experiences (re: scheduling) involves my recent promotion. I was never told what day it was going to be, and my wife needed to take off work to be there for it. She had already taken off a previous day just in case and it didn't happen. If I wasn't able to see the preliminary schedule when it really did happen, she would not have been able to come.

As it was, I did see the schedule, and I asked Scheds later that day to see for sure if it was happening (don't usually do this... thought my own promotion warranted a simple question). They blew me off as if I should never have asked. Fine. She took off work just to be safe, and was able to make the promotion, thanks to being able to see the preliminary schedule.

Anyway, this thread has gone way off topic. I'll let you all know what I select.

 

[A4sForever]

But none of what you said speaks to the point about viewing the preliminary schedule. I don't think it's an attitude of "it's all about me" to want to be best prepared.....

It ALL speaks to it -- you're just not seein' the forest for the trees. Every STUD wants to be the best.

To keep it in the TRACOM vernacular (for you) ... let's say 100 or so STUDs all share your desires and want to see/taste/touch/smell the next days SKED -- each & every day so as to be "the best prepared" (?) .... and "you" usually do ... ... it is a HUGE distraction and drag on the SKED writers' time and attention. It's a natural desire on your part -- it's just counterproductive when multiplied 100 or so times ... each and every day.

Again ... how do you be the "best prepared" without pissing off the SKED department (??) ... you stay ahead of your "next" required hop by being prepared 1-3 hops in advance (depending on stage). It's not that hard. It can be done. It works ... and it's never been any different.

Believe it.

 

[Rg9]

Worst case it's at 0600. Best case, your not scheduled (i loved those days).

Worst case it's 0530 (which means be there at 0500), and I like non scheduled days too (as few of them as there are).

I get the point of being prepared, etc. I'm not asking them to schedule out a solid week for me or anyone else. I'm not even asking for a solid schedule a day in advance. It's quite clear that it's preliminary, and one must always rechecked the final schedule. But knowing a preliminary schedule helps one be even more prepared, so it seems only advantageous (besides the aforementioned problems, which could be dealt with if you ask me) to allow it to be seen.