Super Hornet 88
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Fly Navy said:
They want to get rid of the T-38's and T-6's that just moved in and bring back the A-10's which moved out a couple of years ago....
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Cecil Field vs. Oceana...not done yet!
- Thread starter Hozer
- Start date
They want to get rid of the T-38's and T-6's that just moved in and bring back the A-10's which moved out a couple of years ago....
"The Gods must be Crazy..."
Army Camp -> NAS -> MCAS -> NAS -> MCAS
Actually, the Marines had an earlier residence at Miramar and the Army was there first first before the first round of Navy and then Marine occupancy before the Marines then moved up the coast to El Toro, then came back (Barber's Point and Kaneohe have changed hands between Navy and Marines as well).....the city goofed when they could have had the property for $1:
Although both the Navy and Army had established facilities on North Island in 1912, Miramar’s military roots were not planted until 1917, when the Army purchased the Miramar area and created Camp Kearny, named for Gen. Stephen Kearny, whose Army of the West had captured California during the Mexican-American War. The base cost $4.5 million, and was closed just three years later. Most of Camp Kearny’s soldiers lived in tents, as more than 65,000 men arrived by train from the San Diego docks on their way to World War I battlefields in Europe. After the war, the camp was used as a demobilization and convalescent center, and in 1920, it ceased to function as a military base. Miramar languished for 12 years.
The unused base was perfectly located for Charles Lindbergh, whose Spirit of St. Louis was built by Ryan Airlines Corp. in nearby San Diego. Lindbergh used the abandoned Camp Kearny (East Miramar) parade field to practice tricky landings and take-offs with the new plane, which had no forward-looking windshield. From San Diego, he took off for New York, Paris and international fame.
In the 1930s, the U.S. Navy put their faith in dirigibles. These large, helium-filled airships could patrol long distances along the coasts. The 785-foot-long airships USS Akron and USS Macon could launch and retrieve their five Curtiss F9C-2 Sparrowhawk pursuit aircraft in mid-air, like flying aircraft carriers. In 1932 a mooring mast and hangar were built at the camp for the dirigibles (it was claimed that the hangar was so huge that it had its own weather system!). When the Navy gave up the airship program, Kearny Mesa was quiet once again.
Miramar lay dormant for a few more years until the clouds of war again appeared on the U.S. horizon. By the time World War II had broken out in Europe, Miramar was already undergoing a “precautionary” renovation. Camp Holcomb (later renamed Camp Elliott) was built on part of old Camp Kearny, to be used for Marine artillery and machine gun training. Even before the Pearl Harbor attack in 1941, the base contained more than 26,000 acres. Camp Elliott became home to Fleet Marine Force Training Center, West Coast and the 2nd Marine Division, charged with defending the California coast.
Runways were constructed in 1940, and the 1st Marine Air Wing arrived on Dec. 21 of that year (in August 1942 it would move to Guadalcanal). The Navy commissioned Naval Auxiliary Air Station (NAAS) Camp Kearny in February 1943, specifically to train crews for the Consolidated PB4Y Catalina, which was built less than 10 miles away in San Diego. A month later, the Marines established Marine Corps Air Depot Camp Kearny, later renamed Marine Corps Air Depot Miramar to avoid confusion with the Navy facility.
The big Catalinas proved too heavy for the asphalt runway the Army had installed in 1936 and the longer runways built in 1940, so the Navy added two concrete runways in 1943.
During the 1940s, both the Navy and the Marine Corps occupied Miramar. East Miramar (Camp Elliott) was used to train Marine artillery and armored personnel, while Navy and Marine Corps pilots trained on the western side. The bases were combined and designated Marine Corps Air Station Miramar in 1945.
In 1947, the Marines moved to El Toro in Orange County, and Miramar was redesignated as a Naval Auxiliary Air Station. In 1954, the Navy offered NAAS Miramar to San Diego for $1 (the offer was refused). Only the western half of Miramar’s facilities were put to use, and the old station literally began to deteriorate, with many buildings sold as scrap.
Miramar found new life as a Navy Master Jet Station in the 1950s, but really came into its own during the Vietnam War. The Navy needed a school to train pilots in dog-fighting and in fleet air defense. In 1969 the Top Gun school was established (and immortalized by the 1985 movie of the same name).
In October 1972, Miramar welcomed the famed F-14 Tomcat. VF-124’s mission was to train Tomcat crews for aircraft carrier operations. The first two operational Tomcat squadrons, VF-1 and VF-2, trained here before deploying aboard USS Enterprise (CVN-65) in 1974. These squadrons flew “top cover” during the evacuation of Saigon in 1975.
In 1993, the Base Realignment and Closure Committee recommended closing the El Toro and Tustin air stations and moving the Marines to Miramar. Top Gun and the Navy’s F-14 Tomcat and E-3 Hawkeye squadrons were relocated and the base was once again redesignated as Marine Corps Air Station Miramar. Marines began arriving in August 1994, and by 1997 MCAS Miramar was fully operational. In 1999, El Toro and Tustin were closed.
MCAS Miramar is the headquarters of Marine Corps Air Bases Western Area, which includes Miramar, MCAS Yuma and MCAS Camp Pendleton.
MCAS Miramar also serves as home to the 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing, including MAG-11’s fixed-wing F/A-18 and KC-130 Hercules squadrons and MAG-16’s CH-46E Sea Knight and CH-53E Super Stallion helicopters. The support commands Marine Wing Support Group 37 and Marine Air Control Group 38 and the 3rd MAW Band are also located here.
After an absence of 50 years, MCAS Miramar is once again the home of the Marine Corps’ West Coast air power.
Fezz CB said:
Army Camp -> NAS -> MCAS -> NAS -> MCAS
Actually, the Marines had an earlier residence at Miramar and the Army was there first first before the first round of Navy and then Marine occupancy before the Marines then moved up the coast to El Toro, then came back (Barber's Point and Kaneohe have changed hands between Navy and Marines as well).....the city goofed when they could have had the property for $1:
Although both the Navy and Army had established facilities on North Island in 1912, Miramar’s military roots were not planted until 1917, when the Army purchased the Miramar area and created Camp Kearny, named for Gen. Stephen Kearny, whose Army of the West had captured California during the Mexican-American War. The base cost $4.5 million, and was closed just three years later. Most of Camp Kearny’s soldiers lived in tents, as more than 65,000 men arrived by train from the San Diego docks on their way to World War I battlefields in Europe. After the war, the camp was used as a demobilization and convalescent center, and in 1920, it ceased to function as a military base. Miramar languished for 12 years.
The unused base was perfectly located for Charles Lindbergh, whose Spirit of St. Louis was built by Ryan Airlines Corp. in nearby San Diego. Lindbergh used the abandoned Camp Kearny (East Miramar) parade field to practice tricky landings and take-offs with the new plane, which had no forward-looking windshield. From San Diego, he took off for New York, Paris and international fame.
In the 1930s, the U.S. Navy put their faith in dirigibles. These large, helium-filled airships could patrol long distances along the coasts. The 785-foot-long airships USS Akron and USS Macon could launch and retrieve their five Curtiss F9C-2 Sparrowhawk pursuit aircraft in mid-air, like flying aircraft carriers. In 1932 a mooring mast and hangar were built at the camp for the dirigibles (it was claimed that the hangar was so huge that it had its own weather system!). When the Navy gave up the airship program, Kearny Mesa was quiet once again.
Miramar lay dormant for a few more years until the clouds of war again appeared on the U.S. horizon. By the time World War II had broken out in Europe, Miramar was already undergoing a “precautionary” renovation. Camp Holcomb (later renamed Camp Elliott) was built on part of old Camp Kearny, to be used for Marine artillery and machine gun training. Even before the Pearl Harbor attack in 1941, the base contained more than 26,000 acres. Camp Elliott became home to Fleet Marine Force Training Center, West Coast and the 2nd Marine Division, charged with defending the California coast.
Runways were constructed in 1940, and the 1st Marine Air Wing arrived on Dec. 21 of that year (in August 1942 it would move to Guadalcanal). The Navy commissioned Naval Auxiliary Air Station (NAAS) Camp Kearny in February 1943, specifically to train crews for the Consolidated PB4Y Catalina, which was built less than 10 miles away in San Diego. A month later, the Marines established Marine Corps Air Depot Camp Kearny, later renamed Marine Corps Air Depot Miramar to avoid confusion with the Navy facility.
The big Catalinas proved too heavy for the asphalt runway the Army had installed in 1936 and the longer runways built in 1940, so the Navy added two concrete runways in 1943.
During the 1940s, both the Navy and the Marine Corps occupied Miramar. East Miramar (Camp Elliott) was used to train Marine artillery and armored personnel, while Navy and Marine Corps pilots trained on the western side. The bases were combined and designated Marine Corps Air Station Miramar in 1945.
In 1947, the Marines moved to El Toro in Orange County, and Miramar was redesignated as a Naval Auxiliary Air Station. In 1954, the Navy offered NAAS Miramar to San Diego for $1 (the offer was refused). Only the western half of Miramar’s facilities were put to use, and the old station literally began to deteriorate, with many buildings sold as scrap.
Miramar found new life as a Navy Master Jet Station in the 1950s, but really came into its own during the Vietnam War. The Navy needed a school to train pilots in dog-fighting and in fleet air defense. In 1969 the Top Gun school was established (and immortalized by the 1985 movie of the same name).
In October 1972, Miramar welcomed the famed F-14 Tomcat. VF-124’s mission was to train Tomcat crews for aircraft carrier operations. The first two operational Tomcat squadrons, VF-1 and VF-2, trained here before deploying aboard USS Enterprise (CVN-65) in 1974. These squadrons flew “top cover” during the evacuation of Saigon in 1975.
In 1993, the Base Realignment and Closure Committee recommended closing the El Toro and Tustin air stations and moving the Marines to Miramar. Top Gun and the Navy’s F-14 Tomcat and E-3 Hawkeye squadrons were relocated and the base was once again redesignated as Marine Corps Air Station Miramar. Marines began arriving in August 1994, and by 1997 MCAS Miramar was fully operational. In 1999, El Toro and Tustin were closed.
MCAS Miramar is the headquarters of Marine Corps Air Bases Western Area, which includes Miramar, MCAS Yuma and MCAS Camp Pendleton.
MCAS Miramar also serves as home to the 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing, including MAG-11’s fixed-wing F/A-18 and KC-130 Hercules squadrons and MAG-16’s CH-46E Sea Knight and CH-53E Super Stallion helicopters. The support commands Marine Wing Support Group 37 and Marine Air Control Group 38 and the 3rd MAW Band are also located here.
After an absence of 50 years, MCAS Miramar is once again the home of the Marine Corps’ West Coast air power.
HighDimension said:
There's a private forum?
Anyway, I wish they'd hurry up and settle this. I have a house right around the corner from Cecil and need to know if I should go ahead and sell it. As far as Oceana, the people in Hampton Roads seem to treat us like crap anyway. Let's get out of there and laugh as their local economy withers and dies.
trvsmrtn said:
Wrong answer.
There are a few squeaky wheels around here complaining about jet noise, but I think they are the minority. Their case has been bolstered and spot lighted by the blatant politics really at fault for this debacle.
It is a military town: North side is NASA / Langely and Fort Monroe (US Army), Cheasapeake is Naval Security Group Northwest, Norfolk has 2 big Navy bases, VA Beach has Oceana.
There is a healthy respect for the military in this town and it is a huge employer around here.
The economy has already taken a hit with Fort Monroe closing. We are already looking at losing a carrier to move to Japan, and probably another to Florida when CV 67 goes away (and probably soon).
There is a large community of former, active and reserve folks that call this place home. I hope our economy doesn't die.
Originally Posted by trvsmrtn
As far as Oceana, the people in Hampton Roads seem to treat us like crap anyway.
@ trvsmrtn - who "seems" to treat you like crap...what's that all about??? Do you mean people in the military or people from Cecil? If you mean military, I echo BigIron and add even more military presence below....as to Hampton Roads, military and civil servants and contractors far outnumber any other employer in region. I've been here 25+ years and been treated fine by everyone I've ever met.
I also agree with BigIron that CCAJN is a fringe, small group of activists who can't produce a petition or any accounting of numbers of even reasonable folks dissatisifed with Oceana and her jets....the founder is a retired Navy captain (non aviator...surprise!!) who seemingly delights in poking at the Navy and seeing how much he can rattle the cages...no matter what the Navy does, he isn't happy...this is a familiar trend of somewhat senior folks who retire and lose their former position/clout...there's a similiar chap who howls at V-22 by the name of Col Harry Dunn who is the self proclaimed "coordinator" of the mysterious V-22 Red Ribbon Panel that he claims has met and has analyzed the V-22 and statements by officials related to program yet the vitrolic words only come from him. Read his rant at: http://www.geocities.com/equipmentshop/coldunnexposesgyrenelies
Yet another former aviator (now with a PhD) is waging a campaign against the Naval Academy and is similarly venting right and left (claims they are New Totalitarians and Cultural Marxists): http://www.newtotalitarians.com/Essays.html
@BigIron - I'd add Langley AFB, Ft Eustis, Yorktown NS and Camp Peary to North side, Portsmouth has Navy yard and Naval Hospital complex, Norfolk (and Suffolk) has JFCOM complexes with additional Norfolk presence of SACLANT, MARFORLANT and Commander US Fleet Forces Command and VaBch has Little Creek NAB, Ft Story, Camp Pendleton, Dam Neck and Fentress NALF in addition to NAS Oceana.
As far as Oceana, the people in Hampton Roads seem to treat us like crap anyway.
BigIron said:
@ trvsmrtn - who "seems" to treat you like crap...what's that all about??? Do you mean people in the military or people from Cecil? If you mean military, I echo BigIron and add even more military presence below....as to Hampton Roads, military and civil servants and contractors far outnumber any other employer in region. I've been here 25+ years and been treated fine by everyone I've ever met.
I also agree with BigIron that CCAJN is a fringe, small group of activists who can't produce a petition or any accounting of numbers of even reasonable folks dissatisifed with Oceana and her jets....the founder is a retired Navy captain (non aviator...surprise!!) who seemingly delights in poking at the Navy and seeing how much he can rattle the cages...no matter what the Navy does, he isn't happy...this is a familiar trend of somewhat senior folks who retire and lose their former position/clout...there's a similiar chap who howls at V-22 by the name of Col Harry Dunn who is the self proclaimed "coordinator" of the mysterious V-22 Red Ribbon Panel that he claims has met and has analyzed the V-22 and statements by officials related to program yet the vitrolic words only come from him. Read his rant at: http://www.geocities.com/equipmentshop/coldunnexposesgyrenelies
Yet another former aviator (now with a PhD) is waging a campaign against the Naval Academy and is similarly venting right and left (claims they are New Totalitarians and Cultural Marxists): http://www.newtotalitarians.com/Essays.html
@BigIron - I'd add Langley AFB, Ft Eustis, Yorktown NS and Camp Peary to North side, Portsmouth has Navy yard and Naval Hospital complex, Norfolk (and Suffolk) has JFCOM complexes with additional Norfolk presence of SACLANT, MARFORLANT and Commander US Fleet Forces Command and VaBch has Little Creek NAB, Ft Story, Camp Pendleton, Dam Neck and Fentress NALF in addition to NAS Oceana.
You guys are reading me wrong. I'm referring to the people in the Hampton Roads area in general. On a personal level they'd rather piss on you than give you the time of day. That's the impression I got while I was stationed there. I've heard some defend them claiming that it's because of the stupid stuff that squids do that sours the community towards us, but I never got that impression anywhere else I was stationed. I know that Chesapeake is supposed to be one of the best cities to raise a family, and maybe I'd get a different vibe from the area now that I'm older, married and have kids. But back when I was a young enlisted sailor, I hated the area with a passion. I'm speaking based on my experience, so you guys who love Norfolk can put your pitchforks down, cuz I didn't mean to piss anybody off.
BigIron said:
Like wise...I wasn't even a needle width close to the A4s "message" mode. Just wasn't clear whether you meant "us" as the Cecil crowd (the cities were at odds over the first round when Cecil was realigned) or as a sailor in Hampton Roads. Since it was as a younger sailor, you probably need to put that in perspective. Not too many folks anywhere (except maybe New York during Fleet Week or Naples...at least my namesake "Hey Joes") welcome droves of younger sailors on liberty. Similarly, when I was in high school in Hawaii, we weren't keen on groups of Marines from Kaneohe overtaking our haunts, but that didn't keep me from signing up.
