Chinese Intelligence Ship Harasses USNS Impeccable

[A4sForever]

... He'd take a bullet for old Glory as soon as anyone else one this forum...

I didn't say Flash was a "coward" ... I said he's not a "fighter" as I see it ... it's not his nature, at least not as I read it over the years of our mutual postings.

I've PM'ed him in the past when we had a disagreement and stated that I think he's a "fine young man". I still feel this way @ Flash -- I just think his solutions and approaches are "softer" than mine -- in this instance and in general on most things. We just disagree on many things and how to achieve what would probably be a mutually acceptable outcome.

I've been around more than most of you boys -- and that's colored my viewpoint(s). I make no apologies for my viewpoints. If I come to the conclusion that I'm wrong on something, I'll say so -- I have in the past, as I'm sure you remember. If I think I'm "right", then it's full speed ahead.

If we disagree on this -- then we disagree. We're not gonna agree on everything. Unless, of course, you want to agree w/ me.

 

[Mumbles]

A4s....
I'm a scorched earth/ arc light/fire for effect type myself....and I'm a few years younger than you I suppose.....I don't know how I became such a jaded guy at 33 years old.

I don't know how I can be magnanimous/conciliatory/pragmatic(whatever the fuck that is) in my view anymore. I hate to think of America as 2 nations....but I really do....and that saddens me that I am this way.

 

[armada1651]

...Those idiot Chinamen...

Let's at least stick with the preferred nomenclature.

 

[picklesuit]

I had a salty AWC Jez type tell me about the Russians trying to retrieve "his" DICASS buoys in the med in the late 80's..... the crew waited until Ivan had the active buoy on the deck of the trawler before Chief hit the PING button....I don't know how many watts of noise that thing puts out, but he said all the Russians were blown overboard. By the time that P-3 landed at Sig, 6th Fleet was already waiting for them. They got the perfunctory ass chewing, but when it was over, the Admiral said that it was one of the funniest things he had ever seen.

I think a tactic out of "Whale Wars" would be appropriate...a couple of gallons of Butyric Acid

and maybe one of those sound wave projector thingies

Could do the job...

 

[Mumbles]

Let's at least stick with the preferred nomenclature.

I knew Treehorn would show up with a Leboski-ism!:icon_smil

 

[armada1651]

I knew Treehorn would show up with a Leboski-ism!:icon_smil

We all know the word "Chinamen" can be met with no other response on this website.

 

[BourneID]

I had a salty AWC Jez type tell me about the Russians trying to retrieve "his" DICASS buoys in the med in the late 80's..... the crew waited until Ivan had the active buoy on the deck of the trawler before Chief hit the PING button....I don't know how many watts of noise that thing puts out, but he said all the Russians were blown overboard. By the time that P-3 landed at Sig, 6th Fleet was already waiting for them. They got the perfunctory ass chewing, but when it was over, the Admiral said that it was one of the funniest things he had ever seen.

DICASS about 200Db Vs Flashbang around 175 Db, must not have been fun for the Ruskies, but funny as hell for everyone else involved

 

[MasterBates]

One Ping Only!

 

[Spekkio]

I do think that we should do something, but Flash raises a good point...what are we going to realistically do? Okay, we send a CSG or 2 there....then what? China, historically a shrewd negotiator, knows we're not going to actually attack our #1 trade partner, WE know we're not going to attack them, the rest of the world media knows we aren't going to attack them, so the effect is lost.

Start shooting down Chinese vessels? That might make them stop, or it could get us into international conflict with a nation that has much more teeth than Iraq or Afghanistan. Also, see above about trading partners.

Part of me is wishing they'd be blown to hell, but the practical side of me realizes that it's a lot more complicated than that.

 

[MasterBates]

I had always wondered HOW loud a DICASS was, and if pinging one out of water would be loud..

Now we know.

 

[FlyinSpy]

YOUR alternative is to let "them" think they can do this w/ impunity ... ??? Sorry, I think not; as that's what preceded the PUEBLO fiasco ... and many others.

As far as the "Bushie's" comment -- YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT I'M REFERRING TO -- THE OBAMA ADMIN IS BEING TESTED ON MANY FRONTS AND THIS IS JUST ONE OF THE MANY. To date, I'm not impressed. You don't REALLY want to get into the disgraceful EP-3 thing again, do you ... ???

Flash ... you'll just never "get it". You're NOT a "fighter" ... probably never have been; you're just not wired that way.

One of the interesting things about working on the "Dark Side" of the business in this day and age (as Flash does) is the availability of information. It's somewhat amusing to watch uninformed speculation that can't be corrected or re-vectored because of INFOSEC and OPSEC rules, but that's just the way it is. There is more to this incident than is being discussed in the open source; there will be no discussion of this additional information in this forum. Suffice it to say that the range of potential Chinese motivations behind this incident have been collected and assessed, using the information available, by those who are paid to do this sort of thing. A4S, you mention one of them - and only one. There is lots more to be said on this, just not in this forum. Tomorrow I will post in the AW high side folder for those interested.

Since Santayana said that those who do not remember history (or have selective memories...) are condemned to repeat it, I direct your attention to the Black Sea YORKTOWN/CARON "shouldering" incidents of 1988. For those with poor googling skills, tough - look it up. (Oh hell, who am I kidding - I'm supposed to provide info: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...0A25751C0A96E948260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all) Here is a decent video link, though:

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-63119

After this incident, did President Reagan order the 6th Fleet guys to fire on the Soviets? No, that would be poor judgement. That's not what nuclear armed nations do. The Russians were expressing displeasure with our exercising the right of innocent passage in the Black Sea. Diplomats then stepped in and did their thing, diplomatically.

Gamesmanship at sea has been carried on for a long time; this is just a new chapter. If you want to dive into the nitty-gritty of this sort of thing, check out a well-researched Military Law Review piece here: http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/Military_Law_Review/pdf-files/276475~1.pdf

Lastly, I'm not sure how showing judgement and experience (as well as having a command of the situation well beyond a Fox News watcher) makes anyone less of a fighter, but what the hell do I know?

 

[Redux]

YTHE OBAMA ADMIN IS BEING TESTED ON MANY FRONTS AND THIS IS JUST ONE OF THE MANY.

Didn't Biden call this shot months ago? We ain't seen nothin yet.

 

[A4sForever]

One of the interesting things about working on the "Dark Side" of the business in this day and age .... is the availability of information. It's somewhat amusing to watch uninformed speculation...

Interesting?? "Interesting" is part of a well known Chinese curse ...

But since we're all laughin' and being amused .... I find it "somewhat amusing" to listen to our spooks as they try to convince the rest of us that they have a monopoly on "information": especially -- as you said -- in this "day and age" of the "availability of information", much of which comes from open sources. To listen to some, it's as though the intelligence community has ... shall we say ... not "made mistakes" in the past???

Suffice it to say I am a long time member of two Asian Pacific "forums" which have been studying PacRim national security and defense policy issues for longer than most of you have been in the military. The focus and leadership of those two organizations has changed significantly over the years, and I'm not always onboard w/ the current political "line", but that is beside the point.

What do you think I've been doing for the past 30 years?? Sitting in a seat in a fucking 747 to the exclusion of anything else??

Every time an AW's discussion moves into an intel/geo-political arena, we have to suffer through the INsufferable and condescending attitudes of those intel "specialists" herein who would try to convince the rest of us (or themselves?) that only THEY have a real-world view down that inside track ... if the shoe fits; wear it.

In this particular discussion, I search in vain for anything in my posts that refers to "shooting" ChiComs, as therapeutic as that might be ... which leads me to the observation that I suppose our resident spooks think a preemptive "armed escort" necessarily degenerates into "shooting" ... ??? If so, that would be yet another intelligence "mistake".

Let's not go down the road that says: "I'm in intelligence, so I'm "intelligent" and I know what I'm talking about and you don't ... " That road is full of bumps and potholes --- as we've all witnessed far too many times.

 

[navy09]

It is a USNS ship and civilian manned, it has no major weapon systems.

Still, similar incidents have involved surface combatants with the same outcome. I find it hard to believe that a DDG would blow 5 Chinese ships out of the water for getting too close. Right or wrong, isn't that just the way it is?

I know there are factors in the mix that can't be discussed on here, but am I missing something?

 

[A4sForever]

....Gamesmanship at sea has been carried on for a long time; this is just a new chapter. If you want to dive into the nitty-gritty of this sort of thing, check out ....Lastly, I'm not sure how showing judgement and experience (as well as having a command of the situation well beyond a Fox News watcher) makes anyone less of a fighter, but what the hell do I know?

Hmmm ... I don't know what Fox News has to do w/ it ... perhaps that's YOUR source???

Gamesmanship, huh?? "Carried out for a long time"???

Perhaps your guidance could help me "dive (further) into the nitty-gritty of this sort of thing" had you been been buttoned up and standing GQ w/ us in August, 1968 between Kavalla, Greece and Izmir, Turkey w/ Russian Komars going through the formation. You know; searchlights, star shells, guns manned ... all the things you know about.

Oh, wait ... you say you weren't born yet ???

You really need to attend to that condescending attitude we talked about ... it doesn't do a thing for your argument ... especially w/ guys who have been around the block a few more times than yourself.