Chinese Intelligence Ship Harasses USNS Impeccable

[Spot]

I had a salty AWC Jez type tell me about the Russians trying to retrieve "his" DICASS buoys in the med in the late 80's..... the crew waited until Ivan had the active buoy on the deck of the trawler before Chief hit the PING button....I don't know how many watts of noise that thing puts out, but he said all the Russians were blown overboard. By the time that P-3 landed at Sig, 6th Fleet was already waiting for them. They got the perfunctory ass chewing, but when it was over, the Admiral said that it was one of the funniest things he had ever seen.

I'd love to re-enact this, but this time with a 110 buoy and some Somali pirates.

 

[Mumbles]

Didn't Biden call this shot months ago? We ain't seen nothin yet.

Make sure your loins are girded!!

 

[FlyinSpy]

Perhaps your guidance could help me "dive (further) into the nitty-gritty of this sort of thing" had you been been buttoned up and standing GQ w/ us in August, 1968 between Kavalla, Greece and Izmir, Turkey w/ Russian Komars going through the formation. You know; searchlights, star shells, guns manned ... all the things you know about.

Oh, wait ... you say you weren't born yet ???

You really need to attend to that condescending attitude we talked about ... it doesn't do a thing for your argument ... especially w/ guys who have been around the block a few more times than yourself.

Condescending? That's rich - "Pot, check in with black on Button 20". When I'm condescending, you'll know it without any ambiguity. I'll most likely post a picture of Walter Sobchak

and claim in large bold letters Donny, you're out of your fucking element!". When I'm not being condescending, I'll speak clearly and logically. Like in my previous post(s).

The reality of the situation is that this topic can't be discussed meaningfully in this forum. Pontificating with definitive-yet-unsupportable statements about "How this is a test" and "How it wouldn't have happened with Bush" is typical of the chattering classes, but not of substantive analysis. Don't get me wrong - there's a lot of utility in flinging a theory or estimate up for all to see, and to get weigh-in from different quarters. This goes back to my statement about access to information, and some of the useful advances being made inside the IC concerning the use of social networking as a means to enhance intelligence assessment - see A-Space ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-Space) as a good example. In an environment like that, you can have informed discussion and debate on topics like this. Out here, you get uninformed debate - the worst kind. Sad but true, wish it were different - but it's not. If you want to participate in a meaningful discussion of this topic, get a clearance, get a job, and get an account. Otherwise, your groundless assertions can just drift off into the ether.

1968? I was born in 1965, which makes me graying at the temples and increasingly soft in the middle (Outstanding-High PRT scores notwithstanding...). I'm not some O-1 <2, and did not fall off the turnip truck yesterday. What I am is current. I think you'd probably understand that topic. When I want someone to discuss the merits of IFLOS, I'll ask a *current* LSO, not one who could tell me how it was back in the day of the 27Cs. When I want logical and coherent discussion of the current situation, I completely discount idle speculation from folks who are not current.

Whoops - violated my long-standing rule of not arguing on the internet.

I'll close with this: Donny, you're out of your element.

 

[The Chief]

I was born in 1965 ....

Wow, great year. The year I made Master Chief in the Cryppie world. WoW.

 

[A4sForever]

Condescending? That's rich - What I am is current. I think you'd probably understand that topic. When I want someone to discuss the merits of IFLOS, I'll ask a *current* LSO, not one who could tell me how it was back in the day of the 27Cs.

1968? I was born in 1965....

Like I said ... condescending. Especially where the "current" intel corps (and 'past' in many cases) has such a great record of getting it "right" ... that certainly makes one a "believer", yes?? :sleep_125

And 1965?? Right; sorry ... I missed that one. You would have been 3 years old when you were w/ us in '68 ... at least you'd have been out of diapers. :sleep_125

'Scuse me ... time for the ol' guy's nap ... :sleep_125:sleep_125

 

[FENIAN]

Am I the only one here that imagines a slew of civilians swinging from ropes across the water onto the the decks of the Chinese boats in a "Captain Jack Sparrow" fashion with their open collar button down shirts, a stapler in their teeth, and a hand in their pocket?

I wonder if they had their resident hacker trying to upload a virus into the trawler's "deadliest catch" basket motor.

All illusions aside, I feel like I'm watching my parents fighting and I'm hoping FlyinSpy and A4's don't get a divorce. (Read with humor...please)

 

[squorch2]

My wildly speculative guess is far better than your wildly speculative guess.

 

[m26]

My wildly speculative guess is far better than your wildly speculative guess.

+1 :thumbup_1

 

[Fog]

Hey FNS/A4sFR:
Can't we all just get along (to borrow a phrase from another american)? Something no one else has mentioned here as a reason for not blowing their sorry asses away is that the U.S. Treasury owes about $653BN to the PRC right now. If the Slopes stop buying our debt, our nation becomes insolvent in about a month. Sucks big time, but it's the WAFUM we've gotten ourselves into, and it sure didn't start on BO's watch.

 

[Redux]

1968? I was born in 1965, which makes me graying at the temples and increasingly soft in the middle (Outstanding-High PRT scores notwithstanding...).

I found my long lost son! You got some chores to catch up on round here.

 

[navy09]

hey fns/a4sfr:
Can't we all just get along (to borrow a phrase from another american)? Something no one else has mentioned here as a reason for not blowing their sorry asses away is that the u.s. Treasury owes about $653bn to the prc right now. If the slopes stop buying our debt, our nation becomes insolvent in about a month. Sucks big time, but it's the wafum we've gotten ourselves into, and it sure didn't start on bo's watch.

+1,000

 

[tdimarco]

China's claim of a "special economic zone" in the China Sea is irksome. At least they haven't established a "Line of Death." I would guess that any future incidents will look more like the Berlin Airlift than the Gulf of Sidra. Both sides will annoy each other until they get bored.

 

[nittany03]

China's claim of a "special economic zone" in the China Sea is irksome. At least they haven't established a "Line of Death." I would guess that any future incidents will look more like the Berlin Airlift than the Gulf of Sidra. Both sides will posture and provoke just enough not to screw over their trade relationship.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Flash]

.... I find it "somewhat amusing" to listen to our spooks as they try to convince the rest of us that they have a monopoly on "information": especially -- as you said -- in this "day and age" of the "availability of information", much of which comes from open sources......Let's not go down the road that says: "I'm in intelligence, so I'm "intelligent" and I know what I'm talking about and you don't ... " That road is full of bumps and potholes --- as we've all witnessed far too many times.

I never claimed to have a monopoly on info, and I am not claiming to be more 'intelligent' than you either. But in this case I certainly know more of the full story than you do, simple as that.

Suffice it to say I am a long time member of two Asian Pacific "forums" which have been studying PacRim national security and defense policy issues for longer than most of you have been in the military. The focus and leadership of those two organizations has changed significantly over the years, and I'm not always onboard w/ the current political "line", but that is beside the point.

I have no doubt that you know quite a bit about the area, the Chinese and their motivations. But as someone who has not only flown missions in that corner of the world but continued to keep a close eye on the area on my current profession, I am not deaf, dumb and blind about the subject either. I leave the deep political thinking and studying to those who are much smarter and more knowledgable about the subject, and luckily I have access to a lot of their 'musings'. But when it comes to the day in-day out 'news you can use' for the area, I don't do too bad.

Every time an AW's discussion moves into an intel/geo-political arena, we have to suffer through the INsufferable and condescending attitudes of those intel "specialists" herein who would try to convince the rest of us (or themselves?) that only THEY have a real-world view down that inside track ... if the shoe fits; wear it.

Do you really think that you are the only one who is suffering?

While you might be a member of several Asia-Pacific forums and are smart on the area, it is not your job and you aren't privy to a big chunk of info out there that many of us have access to. While overall strategy might be easy to figure out from reading open sources and talking to the 'great minds' that help formulate it, the day-to-day operations of US forces and the realities they face are not so readily accessible. Speculating on the way current ops should run with little to no reliable information might be amusing but is rarely accurate and often nothing more than the refuge of those who don't have to deal with reality.

In this particular discussion, I search in vain for anything in my posts that refers to "shooting" ChiComs, as therapeutic as that might be ... which leads me to the observation that I suppose our resident spooks think a preemptive "armed escort" necessarily degenerates into "shooting" ... ??? If so, that would be yet another intelligence "mistake".

I never said anything remotely suggesting that having the survey ships escorted would lead to shooting. In reality though there are logistical and operational hurdles that have to be accomplished to do something like that. We aren't a 600 ship Navy anymore, and we can't be everywhere at once. But even if there was a DDG/FFG accompanying the survey ships it might not be anything more than an extra ship to be harassed. As FlyinSpy pointed out, even warships have played bumper boats in the past and result was not too much different than what happened over the weekend. What would a warship have done differently if they were in the same boat, 'so to speak'? Fired on the fishing boats? Rammed them? I don't think the outcome would have been any different.

If there was any mistake here it would be assuming you know more than you really do.

 

[A4sForever]

... secret handshake stuff ... need to know stuff ... decoder ring stuff ... If there was any mistake here it would be assuming you know more than you really do.

I do not disagree or have any problem w/ anything in your post.

I'll be good ... I promise ...