CJCS responds to Rep. Gaetz

[nodropinufaka]

Also on the topic of health care in the military. If anything it doesn’t benefit the higher ranks.

In the civilian sector having money allows one to access a whole slew of doctors and medicine not usually available to normal people.

so as a senior officer on active you kind of stuck with your navy treatment team for the most part.

 

[DanMa1156]

Sarcastic and not narrow minded. Of course people struggle and I have a special appreciation for it. That is my sister in law's gift to me. My question re health care (insurance) was serious though. Really, you have a low paying job the ACA is there. You don't sign up, your fault, and I resent having to pay for your medical bills by other means passed on to tax payers. Your income very low or you are indigent, you have Medicaid. There may be some exceptions to that scheme, but it is not common. Most all folks without insurance are being irresponsible. I know people just like that, including some kin. Employed without workplace benefits, they simply do not take advantage of other options. If I am way off base, please let me know. I have been in the system aiding my sister in law for years. She is AFU. Takes over $1000 of meds a month, has had two surgeries on her finger, one on a shoulder, broken arm, eye surgery, tons of dental work including surgery, in hospitals for mental health, and that is off the top of my head for the last 2-3 years. All that on Medicare including a couple supplementals she pays extra for. Oh, and section 8 housing subsidies. She hasn't worked in two decades. You are damned right it is hard. But it is rare people go hungry for any amount of time or without getting health care unless they have truly fallen through the cracks ( curable with effort and attention by the right people/programs) or are unable to care for themselves. I have strong feelings about mental health care in America. Some folks do need to be forcibly cared for. But mostly I see people simply not taking advantage of what is out there, even if it is the bare safety net.

Oh, and my favorite WTF. We actually have people that do have the ACA coverage, and still just roll into the ER for strep throat or sore back instead of going to a primary care doc. They are incredulous when told their insurance will not pay for the ER or they have a large copay. Some Americans are not looking to be a part of the solution. They think they deserve better than what America's tax payers are doing for them.

To your first point: there are many people whose states (off the top of my head, I think the number is 17 states?) that don't participate in the ACA Medicaid expansion, so they make "too much" to qualify, but no enough to actually be able to afford insurance. This isn't States being unable to balance budgets, this is purely a partisan stand, right or wrong. To your point about people going to the ER and are miffed their insurance doesn't cover it, I kind of get that in terms of educating yourself. Hell, I've had TRICARE for 15 years now and I still don't entirely understand what my family's dental coverage is, what mine is, and why sometimes I have co-pays and sometimes I don't. I don't understand why it's impossible to use TRICARE to book any sort of medical appointment on base despite them advertising that as a capability (is this just a Navy problem? Every time I call the Nurses' Hotline, they look up my facility and are like "oh, hmmph, that's odd, your facility isn't a participant in the network here so I just suggest going to sick call. No, I don't know when they start sick call.") I always call the Nurse's Hotline when I travel because I know think at the very least, getting their referral helps? I know I should educate myself on the topic, but I barely know where to start or what the correct terminology for finding the answers are, and I think I'm a pretty well-educated person. I can imagine Joe Blow or SN Schmuckatelli who has never had health insurance before in their life just walking into it and thinking "oh I've got insurance, this should be covered."

 

[taxi1]

I have been in the system aiding my sister in law for years. She is AFU.

We may be related. I’ve got some of them. ?

They’re everywhere. As an engineer responded on why he couldn’t make something idiot-proof, we just keep making better idiots.

 

[Spekkio]

The military has most of the critical elements of socialism, especially for junior enlisted. Socialism =/= government handouts; people in soviet Russia were conscripted to work after high school and those who couldn't or refused were denied benefits and sometimes jailed. The country has had long standing poverty issues among the elderly because it lacks safety nets for people who can't work.

Government managed, centralized distribution of resources independent of profit motive or perceived consumer value? Check
Government managed, centralized planning for labor force makeup and distribution? Check
Equal pay for rank, regardless of real value produced or difficulty of job? Check
Government protection from competition for things like healthcare, housing, and food? Check
Extremely low wages to keep people dependent on government provided services over civilian options? Check

Yes, servicemembers choose to opt-in to the ecosystem...but once they do, it's mighty close to socialism. If you don't think so, go to your local base housing office and ask them to put you in a house above your paygrade....even prove to them that you have excellent credit and are willing to pay the extra cost. See what they say.

 

[Spekkio]

Also on the topic of health care in the military. If anything it doesn’t benefit the higher ranks.

Eh, yes and no. Being higher ranking means they're more responsive if you waive the bullshit flag on something that doesn't make sense, and they're less likely to treat you with the entering argument that you're faking illness to get out of work.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Well, if you continually beat people down and screw them over then it is any surprise they accept that is their place in society?

Certain groups were continually oppressed and saying to "get over it and quit being a victim" seems pretty disingenuous especially when it was society that put them in that position in the first place. And it almost always comes from people that didn't have to "quit being a victim" to be successful in life.

I highlighted the key word...were. for the last couple of generations there have been laws and agencies that ensure everyone has a chance. Society put them in that place long ago and that's history. Demand reparations for slavery? Bullshit. You and the ancestors you knew were not slaves and had the ability to break out if you chose. The vast majority of those in the workforce today joined the workforce after the civil rights era and the laws have only gotten stronger and more enforced since then. It's on them now. It's there if they really want it and if they are willing to quit with the blame game and make the changes to their mindset and lives that are necessary.

If they can't get over it in today's society, then it's on them.

 

[wink]

To your first point: there are many people whose states (off the top of my head, I think the number is 17 states?) that don't participate in the ACA Medicaid expansion, so they make "too much" to qualify, but no enough to actually be able to afford insurance.

Good point. But just because a state did not expand Medicaid doesn't mean they don't have the ACA, right? As I recall, anyone can buy on the ACA exchange regardless of income.

 

[jtmedli]

While I retain the right to question the judgment of certain GOFOs (and comment on it only in private), I love when I stumble on short clips like this, showing the depth and breadth of a leader's knowledge, judgment, and thought. I found CJCS' comments sharp, with just the right amount of emotional content.

While some AWers don't care for him, I had a similar experience watching ADM McRaven speak at NPS.

I don't have a lot of confidence in the ACSB process, or more specifically, career management leading to the board, but it seems like we do okay at screening for O-7 and up.

Gaetz wasn't "shaking his head" because he had nothing to say (as is the assertion of the 'short clip' you posted). He shook his head because:
A) It wasn't his turn to speak; another member yielded her time to the CJCS and Gaetz is not allowed to speak out of turn.
B) CJCS miscategorized and misrepresented what Gaetz was asking about in his response (aka the Strawman fallacy of argument) in order to try to sound smarter and more righteous that he actually is on the issue.

Understanding the actual rules and situations you're watching unfold makes these hyperbolic CNN headlines even more ridiculous than they already are. Furthermore, they way that Milley proceeds to blame the 6JAN riot on "White Rage" is utterly ridiculous. The events of that day didn't happen because of "White Rage" or anyone's skin color. They happened because people felt as if their votes weren't being counted and that the democratic process was failing due to fraud and malfeasance. Milley shouldn't need books on CRT or "white rage" to understand something so simple.

 

[jtmedli]

It is to the point that I feel it is a wide spread idea among our ranks. My favorite experience was our XO telling us during a mentoring session that promotion boards shouldn't show pictures or names because they can tell someone's race and gender alluding that unqualified people get promoted.

I hate to break it to you, BUT unqualified, unworthy people DO get promoted in today's Navy because of their genitals, and perhaps, skin color. I've sat in the room and watched it happen while I objected to said person (who I knew and had flown with numerous times) being chosen for a prestigious billet because "we needed more girls." It didn't take 2 months of her being around for people to start saying "who is this girl and why the fuck is she here?"

Sanitizing the records of gender and whatnot is the only truly fair way to guarantee that things aren't happening like that. It's one of the smartest and most surprisingly fair decisions I've seen the Navy make.

 

[nodropinufaka]

I highlighted the key word...were. for the last couple of generations there have been laws and agencies that ensure everyone has a chance. Society put them in that place long ago and that's history. Demand reparations for slavery? Bullshit. You and the ancestors you knew were not slaves and had the ability to break out if you chose. The vast majority of those in the workforce today joined the workforce after the civil rights era and the laws have only gotten stronger and more enforced since then. It's on them now. It's there if they really want it and if they are willing to quit with the blame game and make the changes to their mindset and lives that are necessary.

If they can't get over it in today's society, then it's on them.

Yea and that were cause systemic generational issues that continually have moved them down the socioeconomic ladder.

think of it as a an actual ladder where most people got to climb way higher simply cause their skin color and race. Then when they got up to the top after a few hundred years of oppressing others they said “oh my bad. We changed the laws. Quit being lazy and get up here”.

also. You’re whole boot straps ideology isn’t that feasible or realistic.

yes we can help them get jobs and education but they’re still much further behind.

And this Rhetoric, like @SELRES_AMDO said, almost always comes from people who never had to “quit being a victim and get over it”

 

[DanMa1156]

Good point. But just because a state did not expand Medicaid doesn't mean they don't have the ACA, right? As I recall, anyone can buy on the ACA exchange regardless of income.

Correct, but that doesn’t mean it’s affordable. It also assumes there is a competitive marketplace, which, in many locations, there is not.

 

[HAL Pilot]

And this Rhetoric, like @SELRES_AMDO said, almost always comes from people who never had to “quit being a victim and get over it”

There are plenty successful people of color who say exactly this. Some, like my pharmaceutical executive friend, I know personally. There are more than a few at my airline who pulled themselves out of poverty in places like Samoa and other Pacific islands(we probably have more non-white pilots than any other airline and I wouldn’t be surprised if whites were the minority here).

There are plenty of successfully black conservatives in the public eye who overcame this type of background saying the same thing. But they’re obviously white supremacist despite their color since they say this on places like Fox….

The Democratic Party did a complete 180 after the civil rights movement to try and win black voters. They established a system of handouts to try and right there past wrongs as a political party that did more to surpress the blacks as a whole than it helped. The results was a collapse of the family black (I.e. no 2 parent households), diminished importance of an education and lose of personaly responsibility. Why are these needed when the government will take care of you? By the time this was apparent, it was too late and the societal culture that led to the civil rights movement was lost. Instead of fighting for what was right (civil rights movement), a victim mentality emerge.

The GOP on the other hand, remained the same as they always were, provide equality under the law and expect people to take responsibility for their own lives instead of providing handouts. But expecting people to help themselves is now white supremacy and racism.

Talk to any group of black immigrants from Africa. The come from historical poverty, etc. yet they come to the U.S. and thrive. They don’t play the victim and don’t understand why U.S. blacks seem too.

Just like white peoples attitudes need (needed) to change, so must the attitudes of non-whites.

The vast majority of people I know don’t care what color you are. Mixed race marriages and children are almost the norm. They care about attitudes, ethics, ability, etc. - none of which is determined by color.

 

[IKE]

Gaetz wasn't "shaking his head" because he had nothing to say (as is the assertion of the 'short clip' you posted). He shook his head because:
A) It wasn't his turn to speak; another member yielded her time to the CJCS and Gaetz is not allowed to speak out of turn.
B) CJCS miscategorized and misrepresented what Gaetz was asking about in his response (aka the Strawman fallacy of argument) in order to try to sound smarter and more righteous that he actually is on the issue.

Understanding the actual rules and situations you're watching unfold makes these hyperbolic CNN headlines even more ridiculous than they already are. Furthermore, they way that Milley proceeds to blame the 6JAN riot on "White Rage" is utterly ridiculous. The events of that day didn't happen because of "White Rage" or anyone's skin color. They happened because people felt as if their votes weren't being counted and that the democratic process was failing due to fraud and malfeasance. Milley shouldn't need books on CRT or "white rage" to understand something so simple.

I'm no fan of CNN or modern journalistic practices in general, but I completely disagree with you, which is why I posted the video.

IMO, and with all UCMJ-required respect to Rep. Gaetz, his question appeared to be:

1. Deceptively rhetorical. I don't think he ever intended to let GEN Milley truly answer it.

2. Total BS. He might as well have said, "I've got a black friend, and he says racism isn't really a big deal." Has he really gone out and surveyed military units and found that the more racially diverse units are more upset about the extremism training? No, of course not, it's BS rhetoric, designed to inflame and garner support.

I'm not saying every insurrectionist in the Capitol on 6 Jan was a racist, but disenfranchisement naturally has a tribal component to it, and for many of the angriest in the mob that day, the target of their rage is non-whites and immigrants.

 

[GroundPounder]

Talk to any group of black immigrants from Africa. The come from historical poverty, etc. yet they come to the U.S. and thrive. They don’t play the victim and don’t understand why U.S. blacks seem too.


The vast majority of people I know don’t care what color you are. Mixed race marriages and children are almost the norm. They care about attitudes, ethics, ability, etc. - none of which is determined by color.

Several years ago, one of my coworkers had a priest from Africa transferred to his parish. Once he got settled in, he asked for my friend to take him around our area to show him where the poorest and most dangerous neighborhoods were, which he did. As they drove around to housing projects and neighborhood where we have the most issues with violence he kept asking to see where the poor people were. When it was explained to him that he was seeing them, he was incandescent. He absolutely went off, and described how if you were poor in his home country ( which I can't recall ) that you did not have a car, A/C, enough food to get fat, running water,........

He was here for about three years, and he never could understand why ANYONE that lived in America could complain about anything.

I think that if we were to look at any county from the outside, and see progress similar to ours, that we would hold them up as an example. More people in the US should educate themselves on how the rest of the world is, and maybe they would appreciate what we have.

We have room to improve, but being born in the US is winning the life lottery.

 

[HAL Pilot]

I'm not saying every insurrectionist in the Capitol on 6 Jan

Since all the Seattle, Portland, etc. rioters wanted to change the government they too can be called insurrectionists by definition as well by their actions.

They’re either all insurrectionists or they’re either all rioters, demonstrators or whatever.

The only difference is the lefties and the liberal media supported one side and hated the other. They tagged them insurrectionists over and over again until it stuck.