What’s owed to me as a person of polish and Irish heritage? What do you owe me?
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CJCS responds to Rep. Gaetz
- Thread starter IKE
- Start date
nodropinufaka
Well-Known Member
What would you like?
does your race face a long history of discrimination in the United States equal to others?
Was legislation enacted separating you from others?
Was your race kept from unionizing?
If it was. Then become active and look to enact laws to change it and become involved in the process.
There are parallels in Irish-American history in the mid-to-late nineteenth century.
Same with immigration laws and statues against owning land for Asians in the early twentieth century.
Same with the Protestants who fled europe on the mayflower.
Any page you open in a history book will have examples of oppressors and oppressed. Sometimes racial, sometimes religious, almost always have and have-not.
We can learn from the peaceful actions that gave oppressed groups equal standing and better chances to succeed.
I’d like racists to stop asking for special treatment.
The unjustness that the blacks experienced (slavery, forced labor through imprisonment, segregation, Jim Crow, etc. ) echos in society. In things like where they live (the shitty part of town that floods and is downstream from the sewage) to the wealth in their community that they can build on.
If you start with the idea that a just society is better for everybody, not just the ones who got the raw deal for the previous 400 years, then the question to ask is, how to help them succeed now that (per your assertion) everyone is now color-blind.
I don't think handouts are the solution either. That just keeps people dependent. But there needs to be something in-between handouts and pretending that 400 years of history hasn't tilted the board, and that there aren't things to make right.
The "a just society is better for everybody" is something I'm pretty sure not everyone agrees with. I think a lot of people see it as purely a zero sum game.
@taxi1 asks the fundamental question…how do we do this? I have a lot of ideas and most of them wouldn’t be well tolerated in modern society. In other ways we are well on our way - new concepts of public housing mixed in with the standard real estate market instead of the old ghetto system. In other ways in is kind of short sighted. I know plenty of white people in the poorer parts of the nation that haven’t benefited from their skin tone but absolutely know the sting of generational poverty. But what I do know is that we have to stop using history as a cudgel to give weight to any argument. You would have to search far and wide to find someone who believes slavery is a “good” thing and even finding a genuine, full on, racist would be a minor chore but it can be done. Most people today are just lazy bigots, using stereotypes to drive their thinking and much of that bigotry is not actually race based.
We can never, never repair the past. It is done. No one who lived in their time can be guilty of a societal crime today because they didn’t share our outlook. Indeed, in 100 years people will consider us thoughtless and cruel people with lowbrow intentions. So where do we go?
What I think is real is what people today call “systemic racism.” The fix there is as simple as it is complex. Abolish every single aspect of the “Great Society” laws and regulations and rewrite them with an eye on genuine equality. From kindergarten to college a student is a student and each student (or their school) should be given an equal amount of federal money per student. Generational poverty can only be cleaned up with a federal effort to enforce jobs in known poorer areas. If Company X wants a tax break they WILL have a small assembly plant or packing facility, or whatever in a designated neighborhood. If Company Y wants to sell good to the federal government they WILL have a distribution center or truck lot or repair facility in a designated are. These are rather broad and simple-out-look measures but what I really mean is that the federal government must yield power where they have the power and they must do so with an eye entirely blind to skin tone.
It will take years, and I am thinking at least a generation, to get near equality in access. As for equity…it will never happen because it is an artificial goal. Can we do it? Maybe, but it would require several people to surrender their “moral high ground” with an eye on moving forward…and that is hardest step of all.
We can never, never repair the past. It is done. No one who lived in their time can be guilty of a societal crime today because they didn’t share our outlook. Indeed, in 100 years people will consider us thoughtless and cruel people with lowbrow intentions. So where do we go?
What I think is real is what people today call “systemic racism.” The fix there is as simple as it is complex. Abolish every single aspect of the “Great Society” laws and regulations and rewrite them with an eye on genuine equality. From kindergarten to college a student is a student and each student (or their school) should be given an equal amount of federal money per student. Generational poverty can only be cleaned up with a federal effort to enforce jobs in known poorer areas. If Company X wants a tax break they WILL have a small assembly plant or packing facility, or whatever in a designated neighborhood. If Company Y wants to sell good to the federal government they WILL have a distribution center or truck lot or repair facility in a designated are. These are rather broad and simple-out-look measures but what I really mean is that the federal government must yield power where they have the power and they must do so with an eye entirely blind to skin tone.
It will take years, and I am thinking at least a generation, to get near equality in access. As for equity…it will never happen because it is an artificial goal. Can we do it? Maybe, but it would require several people to surrender their “moral high ground” with an eye on moving forward…and that is hardest step of all.
nodropinufaka
Well-Known Member
Can I ask why some people think that when laws change everyone immediately thinks it’s a level playing field?
it’s not like anyone’s behavior changed just the legislation.
it’s not like anyone’s behavior changed just the legislation.
What do you mean by a “level playing field?” What does that term imply? Behavioral change happens over generations. I promise you, things (with reference to notions of racism) today are measurably and philosophically better then they were 30 years ago. In 30 years they will be even better. I imagine that the ONLY “field” that needs to be “level” is access. If that takes time, so be it, but we should keep moving.
nodropinufaka
Well-Known Member
she just passed away last week. Did a lot of Hawaiians and was the first director of Hawaiian Studies at UH Manoa.
She spoke up about the injustices Hawaiians faced and made people proud of their culture and to not feel shame for being Hawaiian.
nodropinufaka
Well-Known Member
I mean it in the sense that just because the Supreme Court rules that separate but equal is no longer allowed it’s not like the people instituting those ideas all of a sudden said “oh ok- we don’t think they’re lesser of anymore”
I always wondered if Joe Biden changed his previous views on people of color after his racial jungle comments or if that was him acting as a politician.
As I noted, change takes time. Biden is likely the same cat he was before but a bit more enlightened…especially by political need. I doubt that many Americans think people of a different skin color are “less,” but I feel many are guilty of using stereotypes to justify some actions…vastly different than being a racist.
In a deeper sense, an individual has to accept they are “equal” and grab the controls.
It is possible that people and maybe even politicians can change their views.
SELRES_AMDO
Well-Known Member
What is special treatment? Can you give some examples?
Can anyone explain what the issue is? The government enacted laws that took away significant opportunities from a lot of minorities. What is controversial about trying to help these minority groups achieve success? Some of the people I served with would lose their minds at any mention of diversity initiatives and it just never made sense to me.
Is it because it takes away opportunities from others? Is it a zero sum game?