CJCS responds to Rep. Gaetz

[HAL Pilot]

Imagine this was your child.

Incidents like this weren’t single incidents or uncommon.

Now imagine you’re still alive and related and people are saying “get over it”

Also- please explain why it’s unreasonable to have a diverse workforce? Cause when I was in the war college in a Republican administration they worked hard and spent a lot of money to advance women and minorities into senior ranks under affirmative action.

His first sentence says it all...history lesson. I didn't have to listen past the first few sentences. As soon as he said history and 1950s, that was enough. It's history and the laws have changed since the 1950s.

Any particular workforce should be based on skills and qualifications. If you have the skills and have the best qualifications, you get the job. If this was the case, anybody of any race, religion, sex, etc. would have an equal opportunity. No should care if there are more whites, black, men, women or whatever as long as the opportunity for the job is equal for all and the best qualified gets the job.

Blacks make up approximately 17% of the U.S. population. If there are 5 available jobs and 6 candidates with 4 white and 2 black, who gets the rounded number? 3 whites and 2 blacks rounding up for the blacks? Or 4 whites and 1 black rounding for the whites? Either way, someone is being discriminated against because of their color. The top 5 qualified should get the job regardless of color and if that was the criteria there would be no discrimination in the opportunity.

You want equality for all - be color blind and gender blind. This is the attitude that all of society needs to adopt if you want equality for all with no discrimination or bias. Hiring for diversity just deepens the prejudices of those better qualified but not hired for being the wrong race or sex. Hiring for diversity is a nice politically correct, woke concept that will do nothing but deepen the divides.

I and others keep answering your "what's wrong" and "please explain" questions yet you keep asking them over and over again. Our answers aren't going to change because you want us to suddenly become "woke" to your ideas of reverse discrimination as a means of trying to make history "right".

 

[WhiskeySierra6]

How is it a discriminator.

The organization (US Military) finds value in having a diverse workforce that mirrors the general public.

So if you meet the standard for a promotion. Why is it discriminatory for the military to decide to maintain a diverse workforce.

You're looking at this wrong. When there are more people then opportunities available then a discriminator needs to be used to decide who gets those opportunities. You're applying a negative connotation to the word discriminator.

For promotion/selection to command in the Navy for instance, the board uses such discriminators as FITREP promotion category (EP/MP/P), length of high-water FITREP, Reporting Senior's recommendations, etc. There is no minimum standard for selection to command or if there is there are so many people that achieve it that it is effectively moot.

If you need a more established authority on the matter the Oxford dictionary defines discriminator as "a characteristic that enables things, people, or classes to be distinguished from one another."

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Imagine this was your child.

Incidents like this weren’t single incidents or uncommon.

Now imagine you’re still alive and related and people are saying “get over it”

Also- please explain why it’s unreasonable to have a diverse workforce? Cause when I was in the war college in a Republican administration they worked hard and spent a lot of money to advance women and minorities into senior ranks under affirmative action.

Black on white crime isn’t uncommon today. I could show you a long list of horrible things, but what purpose would it serve? To keep people pissed off? Should the family of murder victims “get over it”? It’s not that simple but the answer is still yes.

 

[wink]

It is not unreasonable to have a diverse work force. But, "equitable" representation across the entire employed population of the USA without master planning from a central authority is impossible. Humans like to do different things in different places with different goals in mind based on all sorts of things. If they end up clustered or under represented it isn't de facto proof of racism or even the affirmative actions of other humans for any reason at all. It just isn't. To think otherwise is to ignore human nature. That is why totally "equitable" representation (distribution for the econ majors) in employment, or housing, or choice of university, is not possible without central planning by force.

 

[nodropinufaka]

Whoa. Back the hell up. Since when does a Hawaiian feel ashamed of being Hawaiian, IN HAWAII?!?!?! What does that look like? I have never lived in HI, but have been a very frequent visitor over 40 years both professionally and on vacation. My wife's grandmother had a place we would visit. My wife did live there for 3 months in her youth. I have to say every Hawaiian I ever met or observed for any amount of time was very proud of their heritage. It was hard to miss. And Hawaiians imprisoned in my state's correctional system by contract with HI have fought hard, and brought a federal law suit, to be able to maintain native religious and cultural practices in prison far from home. Sorry. I call BS on the idea of native Hawaiian's ashamed of their heritage.

it’s true. And not a lot of people realize.

My family has been in Hawaii since long before it was a US Ter

They were told when the missionaries came to not speak Hawaiian. They were told to not practice their culture.

Pidgin became the de facto language of the Islands. The Hawaiian Kingdom was stolen and the new government said no speaking pidgin or Hawaiian in schools or institutions.

People were told to speak proper English and made to feel ashamed for their heritage as if their heritage was going to hold them back.

Hawaiian Pidgin only recently and finally got recognized as a language by academics.

here is a good links about the Hawaiian culture renaissance from 1970s

Hawaiian Renaissance - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Mirage]

it’s true. And not a lot of people realize.

My family has been in Hawaii since long before it was a US Ter

They were told when the missionaries came to not speak Hawaiian. They were told to not practice their culture.

Pidgin became the de facto language of the Islands. The Hawaiian Kingdom was stolen and the new government said no speaking pidgin or Hawaiian in schools or institutions.

People were told to speak proper English and made to feel ashamed for their heritage as if their heritage was going to hold them back.

Hawaiian Pidgin only recently and finally got recognized as a language by academics.

here is a good links about the Hawaiian culture renaissance from 1970s

Hawaiian Renaissance - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Yeah, lots of people did bad shit in history, you're right.

You know in many societies it's common to never forgive the descendents of anyone for past wrong doings between their ancestor generations... So each generation just keeps fighting and killing each other forever until one side is completely destroyed. Maybe your right and we should just focus on past wrongs, keep the anger alive forever, and never move forward by focusing on the present and future? Maybe we should try to force a group of people who look sort of like the slave holders and Jim Crow racists of the past to pay reparations, accept higher hiring standards based on their skin color, and so on? That sounds like a fun society to mimic!

 

[wink]

it’s true. And not a lot of people realize.

My family has been in Hawaii since long before it was a US Ter

They were told when the missionaries came to not speak Hawaiian. They were told to not practice their culture.

Pidgin became the de facto language of the Islands. The Hawaiian Kingdom was stolen and the new government said no speaking pidgin or Hawaiian in schools or institutions.

People were told to speak proper English and made to feel ashamed for their heritage as if their heritage was going to hold them back.

Hawaiian Pidgin only recently and finally got recognized as a language by academics.

here is a good links about the Hawaiian culture renaissance from 1970s

Hawaiian Renaissance - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Not today! Not for a long time. I simply do not know how it is possible given the long emphasis on HI culture and history. I have only known two people of Hawaiian decent well. One was a Navy pilot. Neither gave a second thought to being a second class, or was ashamed. As an aside. I have known more Native Americans of the Southwest and none are ashamed of their culture.

The things regarding education and language by missionaries and colonists certainly happened. I do believe the natives were told to abandon their language and culture to get ahead in the new world overtaking their islands. It happed to Native Americans in North America including Canada, Australia and all over the world throughout history. And in most cases it was done out of an interest in the future well being of the natives. It was well meaning. And how can you argue that a native Hawaiian would have little upward mobility in their changing islands. What was wrong was the more overt suppression of native culture. But that is long past. Native culture is celebrated to the point some are crying appropriation by haoles who value Hawaiian culture themselves.

 

[SELRES_AMDO]

I do believe the natives were told to abandon their language and culture to get ahead in the new world overtaking their islands. It happed to Native Americans in North America including Canada, Australia and all over the world throughout history. And in most cases it was done out of an interest in the future well being of the natives. It was well meaning.

Are you joking?

I'm certain there was zero thought to the indigenous cultures well being.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Are you joking?

I'm certain there was zero thought to the indigenous cultures well being.

You’re certain?

 

[nodropinufaka]

You’re certain?

Considering there is primary academic texts on that very subject- yes. @SELRES_AMDO is correct

 

[wink]

Are you joking?

I'm certain there was zero thought to the indigenous cultures well being.

No not at all. Then why the mission schools? Why not allow them to fail in the new world, to be marginalized and not participate in the "modern" world? That is what good people thought would happen to Native Americans at the time. You don't seem to know the history at all. As a long time resident of the Southwest I have tried to educate myself about the mission and BIA government schools. Some harm was done. But it was mostly well intended. Today we see it differently. Again, we are reviewing actions in history through the lens of today. How missionaries and government officials with a fiduciary duty to the native tribes approached their missions has changed. Doesn't mean those past practices were employed out of evilness.

 

[nodropinufaka]

Not today! Not for a long time. I simply do not know how it is possible given the long emphasis on HI culture and history. I have only known two people of Hawaiian decent well. One was a Navy pilot. Neither gave a second thought to being a second class, or was ashamed. As an aside. I have known more Native Americans of the Southwest and none are ashamed of their culture.

The things regarding education and language by missionaries and colonists certainly happened. I do believe the natives were told to abandon their language and culture to get ahead in the new world overtaking their islands. It happed to Native Americans in North America including Canada, Australia and all over the world throughout history. And in most cases it was done out of an interest in the future well being of the natives. It was well meaning. And how can you argue that a native Hawaiian would have little upward mobility in their changing islands. What was wrong was the more overt suppression of native culture. But that is long past. Native culture is celebrated to the point some are crying appropriation by haoles who value Hawaiian culture themselves.

The Renaissance was in 1970s and today is very different now with an embrace of their culture.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Considering there is primary academic texts on that very subject- yes. @SELRES_AMDO is correct

An absolute statement like “there was zero thought to the indigenous culture’s well being” is absurd. Neat that “there is primary academic texts” that are literally incapable of proving such an absolute.

 

[nodropinufaka]

No not at all. Then why the mission schools? Why not allow them to fail in the new world, to be marginalized and not participate in the "modern" world? That is what good people thought would happen to Native Americans at the time. You don't seem to know the history at all. As a long time resident of the Southwest I have tried to educate myself about the mission and BIA government schools. Some harm was done. But it was mostly well intended. Today we see it differently. Again, we are reviewing actions in history through the lens of today. How missionaries and government officials with a fiduciary duty to the native tribes approached their missions has changed. Doesn't mean those past practices were employed out of evilness.

Here’s a good read on it if you’re interested in learning more about the history of the Hawaiian Culture.

How to Save a Dying Language

The Hawaiian language nearly went extinct. Now it’s being taught in dozens of immersion schools.

www.google.com

 

[SELRES_AMDO]

You’re certain?

"We suppressed your culture and stole all your land and resources, but this is for your own good."